114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:33 am
@plainoldme,


Once again, your point of pointing out that you are in fact an ignoranus has been noted.

0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 06:53 pm
@reasoning logic,
I know you have a positive outlook on life, but, believe me, cicerone is not being harsh with okie. No one, thankfully, could be like okie. Sometimes, I think he is a carefully constructed satire. Other times, I think he is Mr. Burns.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 06:55 pm
Does anyone know what the big drip means by government schools? Has anyone determined whether he likes corporate schools? Does anyone think allwet knows what he is ranting about?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 07:03 pm
@plainoldme,
From wiki:

For-profit schools are educational institutions that are run by private, profit-seeking companies or organizations.

There are two major types of for-profit schools. One type is known as an educational management organization, or EMO, and these are primary and secondary educational institutions. EMOs work with school districts or charter schools, using public funds to finance operations. The majority of for-profit schools in the K-12 sector in America function as EMOs, and have grown in number in recent years.[citation needed] The other category of for-profit schools are post-secondary institutions which operate as businesses, receiving fees from each student they enroll.

EMOs function differently from charter schools created in order to carry out a particular teaching pedagogy; most charter schools are mission-oriented, while EMOs and other for-profit institutions are market-oriented. While supporters argue that the profit motive encourages efficiency it has also drawn controversy and criticism.

In the 1990s, the for-profit college and university sector boomed, particularly in the United States.

Though for-profit schools still make up only a small percentage of America's educational institutions, in just a few years their numbers have grown dramatically. In February 2000, there were hundreds of thousands of students being taught at 200 for-profit postsecondary facilities, with approximately six percent of students nationally enrolled at a for-profit institution. Eduventures, a higher education research and consulting firm, states that nine percent of all U.S. college and graduate students attend for-profit institutions.

Between 1998 and 2000 a Boston-based company named Advantage Schools (since taken over by Mosaica Education) saw its revenue increase from $4 million to approximately $60 million. Between 1995 and 2000 the Edison Schools' yearly revenues grew from $12 million to $217 million. In 2000 Edison Schools projected that by 2006 it would manage about 423 schools with 260,000 students, giving it revenue of $1.8 billion.

Supporters claim that for-profit school operate more efficiently,[6][7] and that these increases in efficiency can lead to lower fees.[8] Moreover, they argue that financial competition encourages the schools to seek out better qualified teachers.[citation needed]

Supporters argue that for-profit schools rely on attracting students rather than compelling attendance and therefore tend to be more responsive to parents' wishes, and are especially flexible and responsive to the needs of adult learners,[9] and that they also encourage policies that address bottom-line academic performance allowing them to focus on what consumers (students) want—if parents or students do not like the service being offered, they are able to take their business elsewhere.

Supporters also argue that the schools' drive to attract new customers pushes them to innovate and improve at a faster rate than traditional public schools.[citation needed]

Proponents of for-profit schools claim that market operations governing the school promote effective decision- and policy-making.[citation needed] By their example, for-profit schools have the potential to encourage reform in public institutions. Thus, for-profit schools theoretically benefit children, parents, investors, and those who rely on public education.

One problem with for-profit schools is that, being quite new, there have been few systematic examinations of them. The few existing reports show mixed results.

Opponents say that the fundamental purpose of an educational institution should be to educate, not to turn a profit. In 2000, Bob Chase, president of the National Education Association, stated: "Educating children is very different from producing a product."

Others claim that because for-profit schools have never been a mainstream idea, no complete blueprint for running a for-profit institution really exists, which could lead school administration to make costly errors.

For example, in order to maximize profit, valuable services and activities are often eliminated. Extracurricular activities such as sports teams or volunteer clubs are left with little or no budgeting in order to keep costs low. This loss of non-academic activities might hurt a child's ability to enroll in some colleges or universities later on. The two largest EMOs in operation today, Edison* and Advantage, claimed to have high school juniors completing college-level coursework, but recent studies have shown that many of these students are performing at or below the 11th-grade level.

For-profit colleges usually draw-in a high percentage of under-educated African-Americans and Mexican-Americans into the classroom, especially those with a GED or low high school GPA.[citation needed] Their mission is to take the money of these type of students by allowing them to sign up for federal student aid, requiring their parents or legal guardian to co-sign the loan, despite the student being over 18, and leaving them with a crippling debt for what some would consider a worthless degree.[citation needed]

Some former students claim that for-profit colleges make them feel like they went to the flea market and bought themselves a degree.
According to James G. Andrews in a American Association of University Professors article corporate models of education harm the mission of education.

* POM's comment: I have heard negative things about Edison and that some communities ousted Edison after adopting its program.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 07:35 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
I know you have a positive outlook on life, but, believe me, cicerone is not being harsh with okie. No one, thankfully, could be like okie. Sometimes, I think he is a carefully constructed satire. Other times, I think he is Mr. Burns.
Here are the facts about me, "okie," pom. I will follow that up with a question for you.

I was born into a relatively poor farm family in Oklahoma, with pioneers in my past that settled the farms and scratched out a living with hard work, persistance and pride. They survived the dustbowl and the Depression and came out stronger and better because of it. My parents never finished high school, but they could balance their checkbooks and they ended up comfortable. They never owned a credit card. I worked hard as a kid, excelled in school, and worked for every dime to pay my own way through college to earn a degree in a scientific profession. I practiced that successfully for many years, plus I have run my own business for almost 30 years. I have never taken bankruptcy, and have supported my family without welfare or unemployment benefits, raised children, now have grandchildren, married to one wife for almost 40 years, who still loves me, and so do my children and grandchildren, as I do them. I have never been arrested for any crime beyond some minor traffic violation, for which I paid the fines. I am a military vet having served in Vietnam, and have an honorable discharge. I am proudly American and I make no apologies for who I am, what I have accomplished, or what America is. I believe in freedom and individual responsibility, which are the hallmarks of conservatism, and I know that they work, because I have seen them work in multitudes of people that are given to them. The hallmarks of conservatism are the foundation of America. I am grateful for the good fortune of being born in this country and the opportunities afforded me here. I am strongly pro free market capitalism and anti-ultra socialist and communist, because I have read and seen what it has done and is doing to peoples elsewhere in the world. My step-dad served in the Pacific Theatre during the war as a combat engineer and I have other relatives also with distinctive military experience, including one that participated in the invasion at Normandy and ended up with the group taking Berlin. My own dad immigrated from Denmark and came into Ellis Island in the 20's, and he was proudly American.

So with all of that said, which is all the absolute truth, because I have lived it, I will now ask you this question. Am I satire or is it you that is the person out of step with the realities and truths of living? Why do you have so many strange liberal ideas, such as opposing capitalism and all the rest of your stuff? WHYYYY?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 07:37 pm
@okie,
I really don't care about your autobiography which you have published several times and which contains at least one lie.

You told me you had scholarships. Therefore, you did not
Quote:
. . . work[ed] for every dime to pay my own way through college to earn a degree in a scientific profession.

plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 07:38 pm
@okie,
Quote:
The hallmarks of conservatism are the foundation of America.


1.) Racism

2.) Kicking people in the face when they are down
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 07:47 pm
I teach the argument to my intermediate developmental students. I am the only instructor who does so. I do it because if a person can construct an argument, they won't be as susceptible to advertising's ploys and omissions and outright lies. They will not be taken in by the American right as easily as okie of H2O have been. Hopefully, they will not resort to fallacies.

I have convinced my work area chair to do the same.

A non-traditional student wrote demanding to know why a person can not live on the minimum wage.

The last year that it was possible was 1978 which was probably the year she was born.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 07:48 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
I really don't care about your autobiography which you have published several times and which contains at least one lie.

You told me you had scholarships. Therefore, you did not
Quote:
. . . work[ed] for every dime to pay my own way through college to earn a degree in a scientific profession.

There you go. You can't even appreciate a summary of it, can you? Go ahead and nitpick a scholarship and falsely accuse me of lying. It was not a big scholarship and they gave it to me because they thought I deserved it with my high school performance. I had to work for those grades, so I did in fact earn it, pom. Besides, the scholarship did not help that much, because if I remember right, I had to maintain a 3.0 or 3.5 or something to maintain it into the second year, which I did not, so I lost a little money on it the second year. I think it was only good for the first 2 years anyway, and was not even close to a full scholarship of some kind. As an aside, after I got past the required stuff that I was not real interested in, I took more and more of my chosen major and minor, which were geology and math, and my grades by senior year were the best of all 4 years, about a 3.5. That was when a 4.0 was perfect. I understand you can get higher than that now, especially in high school? I can tell you that when I was in college, Calculus, Analytical Trigonometry, Structural Geology, and some of those courses were not easy.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 07:48 pm
@plainoldme,
Another hallmark of conservatism:

3.) A disregard for learning and culture.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 08:01 pm
@okie,
Quote:
You can't even appreciate a summary of it, can you?

BEcause you post it again and again and again.

Quote:
Go ahead and nitpick a scholarship,

You claim honesty. The truth is that you did not earn every dime.

I suspect that attending a state university in the south during the early 60s meant your tuition bill was about $500/annum to start. If your scholarship was $250, it would have paid half your tuition for your freshman year.

Quote:
I think it was only good for the first 2 years anyway

Why don't you remember your scholarship? I remember all three of mine. But then, I also remember what I have written here.

Quote:
after I got past the required stuff that I was not real interested in, I took more and more of my chosen major and minor

I have observed here that you demonstrate no interests. You ridicule everything. However, it could also be that the other courses were too challenging for you.
Quote:
I can tell you that when I was in college, Calculus, Analytical Trigonometry, Structural Geology, and some of those courses were not easy.

My ex-husband holds a doctorate in physical chemistry, specifically in x-ray crystallography. He always bragged about having the equivalent of a master's degree in math and in computer programming. He also said that he never took biology.

I had to do the income tax because he always made math errors. When the family had an Apple 2C and I was in graduate school, we had to separate our floppy discs from his as he managed to ruin them.

After the divorce, he left his transcripts at the house. During high school and college, he never made an A, except for the 10th grade biology class which he swore he never took.

okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:13 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
You can't even appreciate a summary of it, can you?

BEcause you post it again and again and again.
I post again to try to clarify who I am to you. I try to be open and honest and why I believe what I believe. Our beliefs grow out of our experiences of life. I would welcome anything you can offer on that as well.
Quote:
Quote:
Go ahead and nitpick a scholarship,

You claim honesty. The truth is that you did not earn every dime.
I think earning a small scholarship is not much different than working a job to earn it. The fact is I worked every summer doing farm work until I was most of the way through college. I earned $6 or $7 a day plus room and board, 6 days per week, and I had no time to spend it, so at the end of each year I had money to go to school. After the farm work, I worked for a guy that had a tree nursery, earning over a dollar an hour.
Quote:
I suspect that attending a state university in the south during the early 60s meant your tuition bill was about $500/annum to start. If your scholarship was $250, it would have paid half your tuition for your freshman year.
I don't think it was even $500 to begin with, and I did not live on campus. I lived at home the first two years, then I lived in an apartment sharing very cheap rent with a friend attending the same school.
Quote:
Quote:
I think it was only good for the first 2 years anyway

Why don't you remember your scholarship? I remember all three of mine. But then, I also remember what I have written here.
That was 45 years ago, pom. It was a merit scholarship given by some geologically oriented organization I think.
Quote:
Quote:
after I got past the required stuff that I was not real interested in, I took more and more of my chosen major and minor

I have observed here that you demonstrate no interests. You ridicule everything. However, it could also be that the other courses were too challenging for you.
There are scientifically oriented people and there are social sciences types, and I was scientifically oriented. That is where my interests were, so that is the emphasis I placed upon my education. I had to read enough literature and stuff like that in high school that I knew it was not for me. I am more practically oriented, okay?
Quote:
Quote:
I can tell you that when I was in college, Calculus, Analytical Trigonometry, Structural Geology, and some of those courses were not easy.

My ex-husband holds a doctorate in physical chemistry, specifically in x-ray crystallography. He always bragged about having the equivalent of a master's degree in math and in computer programming. He also said that he never took biology.

I had to do the income tax because he always made math errors. When the family had an Apple 2C and I was in graduate school, we had to separate our floppy discs from his as he managed to ruin them.

After the divorce, he left his transcripts at the house. During high school and college, he never made an A, except for the 10th grade biology class which he swore he never took.
Those are the issues you had to deal with, not my problem, pom. Please try not to judge me along with your husband because of the scientific aspect. As for people interested in science vs social studies, you have all kinds on both sides. My wife earned her teaching degree and took mostly social sciences in college. My path was different, and frankly I met more nice and balanced people in my scientific career than anywhere. Sure, problems exist in people of all career paths. My wife is a wonderful person, mother, and grandmother, and I know many wonderful balanced teachers and others in social work as well. Hey, my mother never finished high school, but she was as balanced as they come.

Thanks for the conversation, pom. I enjoy open honesty from others, so if you can do it, thanks.


[/quote]
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:06 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I post again to try to clarify who I am to you

Your general posts are more revelatory than your bio.
Quote:
I try to be open and honest

Then do not claim you earned every dime to pay for tuition.
Quote:
I think earning a small scholarship is not much different than working a job to earn it.

No, it is not. Think before you type.
Quote:
That was 45 years ago, pom

But I remember every detail of mine. Why would 45 years make a difference? I remember events going back to when I was 2.
Quote:
I had to read enough literature and stuff like that in high school that I knew it was not for me. I am more practically oriented, okay?

I probably read more science than you read anything. As for you being "practically oriented," what ever that means . . . again . . . your posts here contradict any element of practicality.
Quote:
Please try not to judge me along with your husband because of the scientific aspect.

No, I was making a point that floated out of your reach. He bragged about his math and computer skills but I had to do the income tax and we all had to hide the floppies from him. I never figured out what he did to them. He had false pride, and so do you.

However, he read constantly. He read science fiction and detective stories, which, most men seem to prefer, based on my experience. He was an opera fan. In fact, we met at the symphony when we each had season tickets. I can not imagine you -- even as a single man -- buying season tickets for the symphony or attending the opera or an Early Music concert or a folk music performance . . . especially the latter. I can't imagine you reading anything but, perhaps, US News & World Report.

I just can not picture you doing anything. You aren't someone who summons up the word polymath.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2011 04:57 am
@plainoldme,

You brainwash students, teach them to construct liberal lies that are so fucked up they will never recognize the truth again.

That's child abuse and you are guilty of it.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2011 06:56 am
@plainoldme,
I should enlarge upon this: the woman wants to know why people can not chose to work a minimum wage job that does not require specific skills if they so choose and still be able to have a roof over their heads, food and clothing?

Hey, righties, you beat the drums of freedom and personal choice . . . why isn't this option available? It once was. Is it is because Reaganomics destroyed that choice?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2011 06:58 am
@H2O MAN,
Pish-tosh. I have never seen a liberal teacher brainwash students . . . right-wing teachers are another matter. Child abuse? At a community college? I will have to tell those in their 30s and 40s they are children.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2011 08:54 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Quote:
Please try not to judge me along with your husband because of the scientific aspect.

No, I was making a point that floated out of your reach. He bragged about his math and computer skills but I had to do the income tax and we all had to hide the floppies from him. I never figured out what he did to them. He had false pride, and so do you.
Humankind has been plagued with pride since the dawn of man, pom. It is a human condition. I think you have the same problem, whether you recognize it or not. Yes, I addmit to pride, but I have worked all my life to try not to allow it to screw up my life and my family. Actually some kinds of pride are proper if kept in perspective. One should have pride in sticking up for sound principles, such as hard work and doing ones best in the motivations that are right. For example, a carpenter needs to take pride in a house that he builds, to the point of building a good one that the occupant can be very pleased to live there.
Quote:
However, he read constantly. He read science fiction and detective stories, which, most men seem to prefer, based on my experience. He was an opera fan. In fact, we met at the symphony when we each had season tickets. I can not imagine you -- even as a single man -- buying season tickets for the symphony or attending the opera or an Early Music concert or a folk music performance . . . especially the latter. I can't imagine you reading anything but, perhaps, US News & World Report.
I am not a reader of fiction, nor do I are about anything imaginational on tv or movies anymore. I would rather stick to reality and something pertinent to what is real. I don't care about symphony at all, nor opera, although I have been in the past. It does nothing for me. I sat in a doctor office yesterday and read some issues of Time, but found them to be pretty empty of anything new. I have grown tired of the news obsession with pop stars and their latest breakups and drug problems and all of that. I find myself saying, "Who cares?"
Quote:
I just can not picture you doing anything. You aren't someone who summons up the word polymath.
It isn't because I do not enjoy life. I enjoy still working some, gardening, photography, many friends and my family. I have no complaints. I have much to be grateful for. I waste too much time on this forum, but it serves as a diversion and one way for me to gauge the public mood in the world, even including that of liberals like you, pom. Actually, I think this little discussion has been one of the best that we've had so far. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2011 08:56 am
@plainoldme,
Quote:
I have never seen a liberal teacher brainwash students


No kidding!
I wouldn't expect a brainwashed liberal teacher
such as yourself to see what you do as brainwashing.
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2011 01:14 pm
@H2O MAN,
Is this how liberals think?

Beware of the liberal tactics in this video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CknbIgDWKWc&feature=channel_video_title
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2011 01:19 pm

I know it's hard to believe, but Liberals appear to be becoming even more vile than ever before.
 

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