Where is the US economy headed?

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Do you really think that they lost? Your quote: who gambled with all of our monies and lost. I am not sure that they lost anything for themselves other than the respect of the small investor!

If it had not been for decisions made at the Fed and within the Bush WH, they indeed would have lost. Many of the richest investors would have lost tremendous amounts of money, because the largest banks were basically ALL insolvent. So we gave them free money to prop them up, in return for... nothing.

I also have big problems with the fact that the Fed has basically abandoned their role in keeping unemployment low. They literally don't give a **** about half their mission! And it's not hard to understand why.

I strongly suggest that all who wish to keep up with the Fed, and how they are actively and currently harming the recovery effort, read this excellent article by Matthew Yglesias:

http://www.democracyjournal.org/20/fed-up.php?page=all

Cycloptichorn

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Your quote :You will believe what you want to believe, no matter what the facts of history tell us.

I do think that this may be true! Do you also include yourself into this statement and if so why or why not?

What is it that causes this type of thinking among people?

I include myself in that. Let me explain a couple of things. First of all, facts of history are often determined by the people that write history, so history is often interpreted according to our own pre-conceived beliefs. I don't think it is a matter of always being dishonest or wanting to be totally biased, but we have our preferences of who we can believe the most, and we also tend to lean certain ways based upon our own past experiences and impressions. I lean toward conservative views because I have judged those views to be more correct and correct more often, and I also have judged conservative people to be more trustworthy and reasoned in their thinking. Much of that mindset stems from the fact that my parents were conservative and I have many friends that are conservative. Their judgements have been sound, trustworthy, and I think right most of the time.

An example of what I am talking about, I listen to pundits and politicians often, and find conservatives to be founded more upon reality and what is right. I listened to Ed Shultz for a while in the car yesterday, and frankly most of what he said was either incomplete or so biased as to be unreliable. He went off on his tirade about the Republican governor in Wisconsin not respecting the constitution, and so on and so on. Never did he mention however that balancing a budget is a worthy and constitutional obligation of his. That would be but one of constant examples of how ignorant I find the man.

I guess we just have to face the fact that we all have different views and we approach problems with different types of solutions. I have observed politics all of my adult life, after growing up in a Democratic family that made current events and politics common discussion around the dinner table. I think also that my views changed much as a result of my working career and from running a business for a long time. It woke me to the realities of the economy and how government policies affect business. I evolved into a conservative Republican, because I found it to be most realistic and practical.

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@okie,

It is nice to hear honesty! Yes it does seem as our environment has a huge influence on our thinking but I do wonder if it is our environment that is the problem!

Your quote: Much of that mindset stems from the fact that my parents were conservative and I have many friends that are conservative. Their judgements have been sound, trustworthy, and I think right most of the time.

Do you think that many other people from other cultures could also be honest when they share this same point of view?

Could those who you may view to be the most evil, "so to speak" also think in this manner?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

rl, I do have one good friend that votes Democratic most of the time. Before the last election, he voted for Nader, and this time he voted for Obama. I think his wife has huge influence upon him, and his son in college got caught up in the Obamamania thing, and so he did much work in his campaign.

The thing that really stands out about the man however, is that both he and his wife are very sound citizens, also religious. For example, they would never have an abortion, but they are pro-choice politically. They live their own lives conservatively, but they are politically liberal, so they are a bit of a contradiction, even though they don't realize it. I think it is a case of some naivity, because he does not seem to connect the relationship of Democratic policies to the results. Example, illegal immigration, he sees the obvious problems and we agree upon the obvious solutions and what the government should do, but he votes for the party that advocates the opposite. On the Iraq issue, we discussed that often leading up to Bush's entry into Iraq. He was always consistently against it, and to this day I respect him for that, but that is contrary to other Democrats that supported Bush but then stabbed him in the back later. I get the feeling now that he is very disappointed in Obama but is not ready to admit it yet. I ascribe much of his political leanings as due to naivity, because on many issues he is simply uninformed of the details when we discuss them.

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@okie,

You very well may be correct in much of what you say as I do not know for sure either way but you seem to be acting out reasonably in my opinion! "At the moment"! LOL

One huge difference that I could be wrong about is the subject of ethics and how it relates to our political decision making! The sad thing that I see is that only a very view have a interest in studying it. I do think that we are getting it close to a good science!

I do know that it is a boring subject, "but have you invested a great deal of time into the study of ethics?

I do think that there may be more to our political problems than just ethics, it could also be to a degree or level our brains are able to be or not to be social animals.

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Im sure as hell sure, that I wouldent believe anything Rush and his ilk said if they swore on a ton of bibles.

I find Rush more credible, at least more informed and reasoned, than somebody like Ed Shultz for example. You also need to remember that Rush says the absurd to illustrate absurdity, or maybe he uses absurdity to illustrate the absurd. In other words, he uses sarcasm. Remember also, for sarcasm to work, it must have an element of truth to it. I for one am glad for the alternate media, without which we would be just as uninformed as the ignorant masses that watch liberal networks a few minuted a day.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:
Have you decided to compete with parados now, cyclops, to become the top niggler on this forum?

My eyes popped out a little here until I read that more closely, okie
Cycloptichorn

Yes, I learned that "niggle" term from a liberal that accused the notorious liberal, parados, of being a "niggler." I had to look up the definition, and truly it is a very accurate and fitting one. I will post one web definition as follows:

"1. Petty, especially in a nagging or annoying way; trifling: a pointless dispute over niggling details.
2. Overly concerned with details; exacting and fussy."

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@okie,

In your case, okie, I say the shoe fits.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

okie wrote:
Now, please do not go off on your tangents again with that subject, as it has been covered so many times that I think the horse has been dead too long, and does not need to be beaten any more. You will believe what you want to believe.
Are you suggesting to Cyclo, Okie, that maybe it is time to stop sniping at each other and move on to other things? That would be refreshing to the rest of us.

I am suggesting that sometimes we need to just agree to disagree sometimes and then move on, rather than re-plowing the same old ground over and over. George Bush used to say we can agree to disagree, and I respected him for that. This is better than a mindset that demands their opinion is always right. I find that similar to a mindset that demands you approve of their actions or they accuse you of bigotry.

I will not claim to be innocent in the matter of bringing in other subjects onto a thread, such as this one about the economy. It should be left as much as possible to the discussion of issues surrounding the economy.

Being political as we are, folks like cyclops and I will probably be guilty of some level of sniping or sarcasm in the future., but I offer my hope to do the best I can. I qualify that with the observation however, that sometimes the credibility of a poster has to be challenged in order to question the credibility of the information they posted. The two are closely linked.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

In your case, okie, I say the shoe fits.

Even my daughter accuses me of being overly analytical, ci!!

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@okie,

I'm not certain which is more disgusting: okie's use of the word demagoguery or his use of the phrase common sense.

I've asked this before, but did anyone ever see a cartoon that was either made during WWII or slightly after that demonstrated demagoguery? The plot centered on a parrot that read Mein Kampf, then turned all of the pets in the household against each other. This was shown on cartoon programs that originated in Detroit during the 1950s. Every time okie uses the word demagoguery, I think of that cartoon, only with okie sitting on the perch.

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@okie,

A REVELATION!

Quote:

Democrats and Republicans have differing viewpoints on all of the issues, cyclops

IDIOCY:

Quote:

I would make the observation that disagreement or a different opinion is not in and of itself a lie.

Hey, every time I wrote something the prominent righties on abuzz disagreed with, they accused me of lying.

I teach the argument to remedial students to protect them . . . and my kids and grandkids . . . from the right's propaganda machine.

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@okie,

Quote:

First of all, facts of history are often determined by the people that write history, so history is often interpreted according to our own pre-conceived beliefs.

Then, they aren't facts, are they?

okie, if you went back in a time machine, accompanied by several scholars and journalists and videographers, and witnessed the actions of people ranging from Genghis Khan and Adolph Hitler and Dwight Eisenhower and more, you would contradict everything that was recorded because it didn't match your preconceived notions . . . of which you have more than anyone I have ever exchanged words with.

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@okie,

Quote:

First of all, facts of history are often determined by the people that write history, so history is often interpreted according to our own pre-conceived beliefs. . . I lean toward conservative views because I have judged those views to be more correct and correct more often, and I also have judged conservative people to be more trustworthy and reasoned in their thinking. . . listened to Ed Shultz for a while in the car yesterday, and frankly most of what he said was either incomplete or so biased as to be unreliable. He went off on his tirade about the Republican governor in Wisconsin not respecting the constitution

No comments are necessary.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
Have you decided to compete with parados now, cyclops, to become the top niggler on this forum?

My eyes popped out a little here until I read that more closely, okie
Cycloptichorn

Yes, I learned that "niggle" term from a liberal that accused the notorious liberal, parados, of being a "niggler." I had to look up the definition, and truly it is a very accurate and fitting one. I will post one web definition as follows:

"1. Petty, especially in a nagging or annoying way; trifling: a pointless dispute over niggling details.
2. Overly concerned with details; exacting and fussy."

This from the guy that always demands that others post his words or apologize.

1 Reply

Mosque Makeovers With Your Tax Dollars

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

This from the guy that always demands that others post his words or apologize.

There you go again. I do not "always" do what you accuse, but in cases where a poster makes an accusation toward me that I think is unfounded, such as if they accuse me of posting something that I do not recall posting, I ask that they either provide proof of their accusation with a direct quote, either that or kindly apologize. I think that is wholly reasonable and proper.

I think one of the latest examples of that was plainoldme saying that I called her a lesbian, so I asked for a quote or provide an apology. I think you chimed in with her, to which I responded with a similar request. To this date, neither have been provided, which does not surprise me and is not inconsistent with the standard practice of certain liberals on this forum.

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Mosque Makeovers With Your Tax Dollars

Why does that not surprise me, H2OMAN?

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@okie,

What you find "unfounded" has been proven wrong so often, it's a wonder you still don't "get it." You are a liar, don't remember what you write from one post to the next, and rewrite history so often, it's a wonder you can live with anybody else. I don't see how family and friends can rely on you to tell the truth. Your memory of current and past history doesn't exist, but your imagination can go wild and recreate history in a manner nobody else on a2k has ever done.

How you managed to graduate from school is a mystery for most of us.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

What you find "unfounded" has been proven wrong so often, it's a wonder you still don't "get it." You are a liar, don't remember what you write from one post to the next, and rewrite history so often, it's a wonder you can live with anybody else. I don't see how family and friends can rely on you to tell the truth. Your memory of current and past history doesn't exist, but your imagination can go wild and recreate history in a manner nobody else on a2k has ever done.

How you managed to graduate from school is a mystery for most of us.

I've had enough of your garbage, ci. You have called me a liar so many times now, without one shred of evidence provided, I am fed up with you. It is time for you to wake up to the fact that your fellow travelers are the ones that do not produce the goods with their cheap name calling. Either knock off the groundless name calling, or get lost, okay?

3 Replies

Where is the US economy headed?

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