114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 05:53 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

If you wish to assert that the existence of any government control over any element in our society establishes the fact of central control, then you will have to invent a new vocabulary for real authoritarian controls.

okie's the one that asserted that.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 10:35 am
I wake up this morning and scan the news. I have to conclude politicians are still clueless about spending. Here it is:
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/02/15/senate-dems-embrace-obama-spending-freeze-wednesday
"Dems will embrace President Obama's five-year domestic discretionary spending freeze, a move the White House estimates will save $400 billion over 10 years, according to a senior Senate Democratic leadership aide. Dems made the decision "to strike the right balance between helping create jobs...while also living within our means and reining in the deficit," the aide said."

I think to myself, but 400 billion over 10 years is a drop in the bucket. They are always using this 10 year phrase for spending cuts, which is frustrating, and frankly silly and insulting to anyone with a brain and a calculator. I want to hear what they will do in one year or this year. After all, 400 billion over 10 years is 40 bill in one year at best, which is nothing compared to the problem we have. I ask, do these people have any common sense whatsoever? Perhaps the better question is do these people have one ounce of honesty?
I agree with the following.

"Earlier in the day, Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio and former Budget Director under President George W. Bush, told reporters, "The president has a (spending) freeze, but the freeze locks in the 24 percent increase in that spending over the last two years. That 24 percent, by the way, does not include the additional funding from the stimulus and from the supplemental, which would take it up to about 80 percent increase in the last two years.""

Conclusion: We need more people with some sense in government. Perhaps the Tea Party gives us the best hope for any?

Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 10:42 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

I wake up this morning and scan the news. I have to conclude politicians are still clueless about spending. Here it is:
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/02/15/senate-dems-embrace-obama-spending-freeze-wednesday
"Dems will embrace President Obama's five-year domestic discretionary spending freeze, a move the White House estimates will save $400 billion over 10 years, according to a senior Senate Democratic leadership aide. Dems made the decision "to strike the right balance between helping create jobs...while also living within our means and reining in the deficit," the aide said."

I think to myself, but 400 billion over 10 years is a drop in the bucket.


No, it isn't. It's 40% of what the Republicans proposed. That's not a drop in the bucket.
Quote:

They are always using this 10 year phrase for spending cuts, which is frustrating, and frankly silly and insulting to anyone with a brain and a calculator.


That's because the Congressional Budget Office typically scores bills with a 10-year window. Many - most, even - bills take years for their true spending to kick in. Without a window, you'd have a very inaccurate view of what things cost.
Quote:

I want to hear what they will do in one year or this year. After all, 400 billion over 10 years is 40 bill in one year at best, which is nothing compared to the problem we have. I ask, do these people have any common sense whatsoever? Perhaps the better question is do these people have one ounce of honesty?


If you had any 'common sense' you'd know how the CBO works and why projections are put out that way. If you were honest you'd admit that you don't know why things are done that way and that there are probably good reasons for doing so.

Quote:
I agree with the following.

"Earlier in the day, Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio and former Budget Director under President George W. Bush, told reporters, "The president has a (spending) freeze, but the freeze locks in the 24 percent increase in that spending over the last two years. That 24 percent, by the way, does not include the additional funding from the stimulus and from the supplemental, which would take it up to about 80 percent increase in the last two years.""

Conclusion: We need more people with some sense in government. Perhaps the Tea Party gives us the best hope for any?


You're honestly quoting Bush's former budget director as an authority on saving money or balancing budgets??? Laughing

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 10:53 am
PrezBO lied his ass off yesterday or he just doesn't have a clue - he got it wrong one way or the other.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:09 am
@Cycloptichorn,
For anyone that believes government spending creates jobs, at least good long term jobs, this graph should serve to dispel that notion.
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/4c20b5327f8b9a760dad0400-547-/image.jpg
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:10 am
@okie,
okie, please...

Rolling Eyes
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:12 am
@Rockhead,
I wonder if okie understands that government spending includes our defense department? That's a huge portion of all spending.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:14 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

For anyone that believes government spending creates jobs, at least good long term jobs, this graph should serve to dispel that notion.
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/4c20b5327f8b9a760dad0400-547-/image.jpg


Do you even KNOW what the graph you posted means?

A hint - it doesn't mean what you think it does.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:17 am
@cicerone imposter,
You might need to look at this graph, Rocky and ci. The primary culprits appear to be Social Security and Medicare, interest on the debt, and other, which I presume includes discretionary spending?
http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4c20b43c7f8b9ad634900600-547-/image.jpg
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:19 am
@okie,
I'm still looking at your last one, okie, and marveling at your brilliant insights...

how's Rush doing today?
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:22 am
@Cycloptichorn,
The graph shows spending and tax revenue as a percentage of gdp, but it reflects the economy and jobs in an indirect way, by showing that more government spending does not increase tax revenue as a percentage of gdp. I think we can assume that if there were more jobs, it would indicate a healthier economy and a higher rate of tax revenue. We also see from the graph that higher spending has brought an expansion of deficits instead of the desired result of an economy that would stabilize deficits or decrease them.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:23 am
@okie,
okie, Are you that dumb? Social security is a trust fund expense that still shows it can sustain current costs. Take that away, and what do you have? The general fund borrows that money to spend it on current expense. Unless the feds make adjustments - as we have known was needed from decades ago - that current payouts cannot be sustained over the long run.

Don't forget; both democratic and republican administrations and congress failed to "repair" it. The longer they wait, the problem becomes more acute for future beneficiaries.

According to the 2008 federal expenditure pie chart
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm, past and current military expenditure represents 54% of all expenses.
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:23 am
@okie,
"I think we can assume "

you need to quit that...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:25 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

The graph shows spending and tax revenue as a percentage of gdp, but it reflects the economy and jobs in an indirect way, by showing that more government spending does not increase tax revenue as a percentage of gdp.


Sure - but nobody every claimed that gov't spending increased tax revenue as a share of GDP. The only claim that is ever made in that direction is the opposite one.

Quote:
I think we can assume that if there were more jobs, it would indicate a healthier economy and a higher rate of tax revenue.


Don't you know better than to make assumptions?

If we cut taxes, revenue goes down, even if there are more jobs. Look at your own graph - the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 caused revenues to absolutely plummet and they've never recovered from those low levels.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:26 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

I'm still looking at your last one, okie, and marveling at your brilliant insights...
how's Rush doing today?
I haven't listened today. Why don't you listen, so that you might learn something? I get tired of listening, because he repeats the obvious over and over.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:27 am
@okie,
I get tired of listening, because he repeats the obviously stupid and hatefully wrong over and over.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:27 am
There will be an interesting vote today in the House on some of the 100's of budget cutting amendments. One of them involves the engines for the new F-35 fighter jets, which is the largest DOD program in history. The overall project is way over budget and there are a few people who argue that the entire project should be scrapped. That seems unlikely. The aircraft is likely to be exported to countries like Turkey and Israel as well as becoming a major component in our Air Force and Navy.
The sub-story involves the engine. United Technology (UTX)/Pratt and Whitney won the competition against GE/Rolls Royce. But Congress decided to continue to spend money to have GE/Rolls work on the project.
Obama and Gates want to save $450M this year and $2 or $3B over the out years by letting GE/Rolls go.
Some 90 freshman Congress members will vote to side with the administration on the cut or on keeping the dual engine makers thing going.
The vote will probably split along regional rather then party lines depending on where the factories and jobs are.
My bet: "I want to cut the budget but this is not a cut I can vote for. It's a job-killer I can not vote for."
Hypocritical posturing, anyone?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:31 am
@realjohnboy,
That's typical GOP isn't it? They want to do away with all pork, except those that will help their district.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:31 am
@realjohnboy,
Haha - the factories are in Speaker Boehner's district. And he's the one who 'earmarked' the 450 million in the latest budget.

Fuckin' hypocrite.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 11:33 am
http://nationaljournal.com/democrats-want-pentagon-out-of-nascar-20110215

Quote:
The Pentagon has had a decade-long business partnership with the NASCAR stock-car racing circuit that has been a boon to the sport. But amid the House's Republican-led frenzy to cut federal spending, some Democrats have made it a target, backing an amendment to the fiscal 2011 continuing resolution that would prohibit any of its funds going toward military sponsorships of stock cars.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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