114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 08:29 pm
@spendius,
Quote:

What about the consumers? Why would products be made if consumers didn't demand them.?


No one needs most of the "products" that weigh down our market shelves. Flavored corn chips? "Potato" snacks of equal size and shape? Plastic most things? Donut bakers? "Bacon-neers?"
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 08:36 pm
@ican711nm,
Here's an anthem for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMD7Ezp3gWc
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 08:40 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Cripes--you're nuttier than I thought. What do you define as "reasonable"?

I'll not bother commenting on your view on what I'm an expert in. I expect no other.


Typical conservative, no matter what country he's from: no sense of personal responsibility.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 10:13 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
There's a big elephant in the room and its hostility to business is already evident. Moreover it has already demonstrated a certain carelessness in thinking through the consequences of the regulations it issues so prodigiously and a lack of bacic competence in drafting them. That's more than enough to convincing folks with much to lose to hunker down and wait for a better elephant.
Great observation, George. Part of the problem with the Democrats elephant-like government is that it views us out here as predators, such as lions, hyenas, and tigers, but they ignore the fact that simply sitting on us can easily crush us. That is why we are hunkering down, hoping the current elephant leaves for a better one. I found the following about elephants, in which is contained some interesting, and ominous, allegories:
http://www.thebigzoo.com/Animals/African_Elephant.asp
"The elephant has no natural enemies. Fully-grown elephants are so incredibly large that they can easily crush most predators. As a result, lions, hyenas, and tigers attack only the very young elephants. A baby elephant’s mother is very protective of her young. When she is away, other females of the herd look out for her young."

Now, I second George's wish: Happy Thanksgiving to all.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 12:28 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I am glad to see that you agree, though, that producers of products ought to be held liable for the pollution produced during the creation and transport of those products. Such things would provide perhaps the greatest pressure to do things cleaner that we could get as a society; it is truly a free-market solution to environmentalism.

Cycloptichorn


While I agree in principle, how far do you go with it?

Is the pizza company responsible for the exhaust from their delivery drivers vehicles?
How about ice cream trucks?
Who pays that cost then?
Does the ice cream company, or the driver?

While your idea has merit, there are so many variables and questions that it wouldnt work.
With so many small companies and one man companies around, does the intial producer pay the cost, or does the ultimate end user pay it?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 04:54 am
@mysteryman,
Cyclo doesn't deal with those sorts of question mm.

He simply offers pretentious phrases, vague and muddled ideas, a confused exaltation of his own importance and a sense that to feel concerned from time to time gives the impression that he has grappled responsibly with serious problems.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 10:02 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Quote:
What about the consumers? Why would products be made if consumers didn't demand them.?
No one needs most of the "products" that weigh down our market shelves. Flavored corn chips? "Potato" snacks of equal size and shape? Plastic most things? Donut bakers? "Bacon-neers?"
I know a few people that need some of those, including me sometimes. And you might think nobody needs "dressing" with gravy over it today? Are you proposing to take them away from everyone, pom?

Happy Thanksgiving, even to you too, pom, as you eat your granola. Laughing
plainoldme
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 12:59 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I know a few people that need some of those, including me sometimes. And you might think nobody needs "dressing" with gravy over it today? Are you proposing to take them away from everyone, pom?


The daily measurement of how far okie's IQ has slipped.

He is like arguing with a fence post.

He has the understanding of a fence post, which is the root of the problem.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 01:09 pm
@okie,
BTW, although there are just two of us, we will enjoy an appetizer tart of caramelized onions and gorgonzola; a small turkey without stuffing but flavored with ginger, onions and fresh herbs; a homemade baguette with herbed olive oil; green beans amandine; homemade apple-cranberry chutney, and a pumpkin pie made from a fresh New Jersey cheese pumpkin, homemade caramel for flavoring (I generally use New England sugar pumpkins with molasses) and a butter crust.

Hate to tell you, but there is nothing like the home cooking of good left-wing woman. Nothing is canned or purchased from the frozen food section. No egregious premade pie crusts. No sweet potatoes topped with marshmallows. No beans dressed with Campbell's soup.

And the menu varies from year-to-year, just as the beef stew is never the same from batch-to-batch. Life is too short for bad or boring food.



realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 01:23 pm
@plainoldme,
I can be there in an hour or three.
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 01:48 pm
@realjohnboy,
You'd be welcome! Bread is rising now.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 06:08 pm
@plainoldme,
In Philippa Pullar's great book Consuming Passions she explains why talking about food is so distasteful to well brought up English ladies.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 07:38 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Hate to tell you, but there is nothing like the home cooking of good left-wing woman. Nothing is canned or purchased from the frozen food section. No egregious premade pie crusts. No sweet potatoes topped with marshmallows. No beans dressed with Campbell's soup.
I hope you are kidding, pom? Are you now claiming that liberal women are better cooks than conservative women, or men for that matter?
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 07:47 pm
Tell the truth, Okie. Was your mother a good cook? Are you and your wife good cooks?
I hope everyone here has had a fine Thanksgiving.
okie
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 08:27 pm
@realjohnboy,
My mother was a great cook. I am a lousy cook, because I have never tried to cook much of anything. I can make popcorn, jello, and sometimes pancakes or eggs and bacon for breakfast. Laughing I have been known to make a banana cream pie or something like that. My wife is a great cook, and she inherited that tradition from her mother as well. We had a great dinner with a handful of friends and family today, although fewer than usual. We had turkey, dressing, potatoes including sweet potatoes, gravy, salads, cranberries, etc. and pies, including pecan, pumpkin, etc. No complaints at all. Our family is a little spread out now, as many are, so there were fewer this year than sometimes and we didn't take that long to do it all, but we talked to most of them, and all had a good day.
I think I finally found the proclamation by George Washington in 1789, to establish this holiday. A bit long, but certainly worth reading again.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.8004/pub_detail.asp
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA
A PROCLAMATION
"WHEREAS, It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour: And whereof both Houses have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a day of PUBLIC THANKSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favours of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

NOW, THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the TWENTY-SIXTH day of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favourable interpositions of his providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish Constitutions of Government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted' for the civil and religious Liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

AND ALSO that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have show kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine."
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 10:57 am
Listen up!

POWERS THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS OR DELEGATES:
The Constitution of the USA specifies both the powers it grants or delegates to the federal government, and specifies some of the powers that are not delegated to the federal government. Any power exercised by the federal government that the Constitution has not delegated to the federal government, or has specified not delegated to the federal government, is a power that is unlawful for the federal government to exercise.

The Constitution does not delegate to the federal government the power to take private property from those persons and from those organizations who have lawfully earned their property, and give their property to those persons and organizations who have not lawfully earned that property.

The Constitution does not delegate to the federal government the power to transfer wealth from those who earned it to those who do not earn it.

The Constitution can only be lawfully changed by amending it according to the Constitution’s Article V. The Constitution cannot be lawfully changed by judicial, executive, or congressional decisions.

The fact that previous presidents have transferred wealth and the Supreme Court has not declared transfers of wealth unlawful, is not justification for the federal government continuing to transfer wealth.

I base these conclusions on the 5th and 10th Amendments to the Constitution and on the fact that nowhere in the Constitution is the federal government delegated the power to transfer wealth from those who earned it to those who did not earn it.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 11:02 am
@okie,
Besides answering rjb's question about my family's cooking, I posted the following about Thanksgiving. It was thumbed down once already, but I want to see if anyone is unAmerican enough to do it again? Who would thumbs down George Washington's proclamation, and why?
okie wrote:
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.8004/pub_detail.asp
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA
A PROCLAMATION
"WHEREAS, It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour: And whereof both Houses have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a day of PUBLIC THANKSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favours of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

NOW, THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the TWENTY-SIXTH day of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favourable interpositions of his providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish Constitutions of Government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted' for the civil and religious Liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

AND ALSO that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have show kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine."

okie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 11:30 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Besides answering rjb's question about my family's cooking, I posted the following about Thanksgiving. It was thumbed down once already, but I want to see if anyone is unAmerican enough to do it again? Who would thumbs down George Washington's proclamation, and why?
Sure enough, as I thought would happen, the proclamation was thumbed down again. Who would be that unAmerican to do that? Only a guess, but I am guessing plainoldme.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 11:35 am
@okie,
There was a particulr proclomation for a 1 time feast of Thanksgiving.Washington introduced another one in his term. Adams introduced several as ell as MAdison. It wasnt ever a repeated cyclic Holidy until Lincoln was celebrating Gettysburg (even though he was pissed at Meade for letting Lee off the hook). SO really all the other proclamations were for one time celebrations not a repeating national holiday and it wasnt till 1863 until we had this 4th Thursday in November stuff.
okie
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 05:00 pm
@farmerman,
Thanks for helping clarify that. I chose Washington's proclamation because I think his was the first presidential one, even though it was for only that year, then later Lincoln established it to happen every year on the last Thursday of November. Part of the reason I posted that proclamation was to remind us all that men like Washington were indeed men with a deep faith in one God, in the tradition of the Judeo-Christian culture that this country was founded upon.
 

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