114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 02:05 pm
I read an article today reporting U.S. corporations recorded profits in the 3rd Q that, when annualized, worked out to $1.6T. That would be a record.
As with many such articles about economics, they tend to more than a bit sloppy in the details. I googled U.S. Corporate Profits 3rd Quarter 2010. Unless someone else does it 1st, I will try to get to some bullet-points on this later in the weekend.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 02:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I am glad to see that you agree, though, that producers of products ought to be held liable for the pollution produced during the creation and transport of those products.


What about the consumers? Why would products be made if consumers didn't demand them.? You're scapegoating the producers which is of course a natural stance for you to take. It's populist.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 02:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I think you will see this change over time, as younger generations just don't have the same visceral hate of nuclear power as the hippies did.
Cycloptichorn
Laughing Laughing Good one, cyclops!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 02:15 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I think you will see this change over time, as younger generations just don't have the same visceral hate of nuclear power as the hippies did.
Cycloptichorn
Laughing Laughing Good one, cyclops!


You can laugh all you want, but it's true. As a member of a younger generation, and one who talks to other members of this generation, I can tell you without a doubt that the irrational fear of nuclear power simply isn't as wide-spread as it is amongst those who came before.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 02:19 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
I am glad to see that you agree, though, that producers of products ought to be held liable for the pollution produced during the creation and transport of those products.


What about the consumers? Why would products be made if consumers didn't demand them.? You're scapegoating the producers which is of course a natural stance for you to take. It's populist.


The presumption is that the increased costs to the producers become increased costs to the consumers, old chum. Read the conversation back a bit.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 03:04 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I think you will see this change over time, as younger generations just don't have the same visceral hate of nuclear power as the hippies did.
Cycloptichorn
Laughing Laughing Good one, cyclops!
You can laugh all you want, but it's true. As a member of a younger generation, and one who talks to other members of this generation, I can tell you without a doubt that the irrational fear of nuclear power simply isn't as wide-spread as it is amongst those who came before.
Cycloptichorn
I know its true. I just thought it was funny, coming from you! Maybe you could learn from history? As you now realize the nuclear power hysteria was overblown, perhaps you could now realize the global warming hysteria is also overblown at least as much and probably worse. The hysteria is in fact "irrational," as you used the term.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 03:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

I am glad to see that you agree, though, that producers of products ought to be held liable for the pollution produced during the creation and transport of those products. Such things would provide perhaps the greatest pressure to do things cleaner that we could get as a society; it is truly a free-market solution to environmentalism.

Cycloptichorn



I do agree, though I believe it is a principle highly subject to selective misuse and hypocrisy. I wouldn't mind a tax on bottled water to pay for the recycling of the packaging mateerials wasted on a product that is essentially what we get out of our taps. Many of the minerals (inclouding fluoride) that we get in tap water are not impurities at all : they are essential nutrients (or in the case of fluoride, an essential component of dental health) . I wouldn't mind taxes on fossil fuels, provided that they go to the general fund and aren't used to subsidize grossly uneconomical fantasies such as wind power already dominated by a cadre of politically well connected investors, prominently including Al Gore.

I would also like to see major limitations applied to the endangered species act - a law which explicitly excludes the welfare of human beings from the risk analysis it mandates. It has degenerated to a tool for litigants to prevent property development on economically necessary things like power generation, transportation and other essential components of our sustainable infrastructure.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 03:38 pm
#1
George Soros repeatedly declares his objective to be a "a new world order" with the USA one of its subordinates. On December 9, 2004, Eli Pariser, then head of Soros's Moveon PAC, declared, "Now the Democratic Party is our party. We bought it, we own it.” Obama is an employee of George Soros. The Obama government is our enemy.


georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 04:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
My strong impression was that at least 2/3rds of those present were committed to voting against Obama in the next election. Their expressed preoccupation was more towards how could they have been so foolish not to see the reality that has unfolded.

Investing in a business is a largely irrevocable bet on a good economic outcome. Added uncertainty about the government's behavior, both in its regulatory roles and in terms of it expected tax policy are themselves disincentives to investment. When that uncertainty involves only questions about how much the government will misuse its regulatory powers to pick winners and losers in the economy and how much it will rasise taxes these effects are all very bad and highly significant. One of the key issues in our sluggish to non existent recovery from the current recession (and the recent pessimistic forecast for the coming year) is the hoarding of cash by enterprises in anticipation of worse news to come at the hands of a government that blithely writes in to the regulatory law the requirement for companies to submit 9610s to the IRS for every procurement action over $600. Folks who issue regulations such as these obviously have no concept of the cost of such regulations and the harm they will do.

There's a big elephant in the room and its hostility to business is already evident. Moreover it has already demonstrated a certain carelessness in thinking through the consequences of the regulations it issues so prodigiously and a lack of bacic competence in drafting them. That's more than enough to convincing folks with much to lose to hunker down and wait for a better elephant.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 04:09 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The presumption is that the increased costs to the producers become increased costs to the consumers, old chum. Read the conversation back a bit.


I don't need to read the conversation back a bit Cyclo. I know you won't be campaigning to put consumer prices up.

We all know that increased costs to the producers become increased costs to the consumers. Otherwise there would be no producers.

That the consumers are responsible for the pollution is my point. And they are. You take comprehension lessons chum.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 04:12 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
The presumption is that the increased costs to the producers become increased costs to the consumers, old chum. Read the conversation back a bit.


I don't need to read the conversation back a bit Cyclo. I know you won't be campaigning to put consumer prices up.


I am specifically campaigning to put consumer prices up. If you had bothered to read the thread you would see that.

Quote:
We all know that increased costs to the producers become increased costs to the consumers. Otherwise there would be no producers.

That the consumers are responsible for the pollution is my point. And they are. You take comprehension lessons chum.


I agree that the consumers are responsible for the pollution. We are in agreement. One again, if you had read back in the thread, you would have seen this instantly. When people advise you to read back further, because you are misunderstanding the conversation, you might want to take their advice instead of making yourself look foolish.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 04:21 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

My strong impression was that at least 2/3rds of those present were committed to voting against Obama in the next election. Their expressed preoccupation was more towards how could they have been so foolish not to see the reality that has unfolded.


Don't be surprised when 95% of them vote for him. Everyone likes to grumble, but as you say - what is the alternative? A Republican who will be worse in every way? Who opposes them on pretty much every major issue? Please. You correctly identified in an earlier post that Obama's critics on the left have nowhere to go. What more, I believe that the next two years will bring Republican intransigence into much sharper relief, as Obama now pivots to attacking the Republican House on a regular basis. I believe he could have some good success with this, as people have a pretty dim view of the Republican House. The goal for Obama will be to make it clearer to the average person that the things necessary for helping our struggling economy are being held up by a bunch of ideologues on the other side of the fence.

I'll tell ya right now: a government shutdown or refusal to extend the debt limit will be disastrous for your party. You'd better hope they don't go this route.

Quote:
Investing in a business is a largely irrevocable bet on a good economic outcome. Added uncertainty about the government's behavior, both in its regulatory roles and in terms of it expected tax policy are themselves disincentives to investment. When that uncertainty involves only questions about how much the government will misuse its regulatory powers to pick winners and losers in the economy and how much it will rasise taxes these effects are all very bad and highly significant. One of the key issues in our sluggish to non existent recovery from the current recession (and the recent pessimistic forecast for the coming year) is the hoarding of cash by enterprises in anticipation of worse news to come at the hands of a government that blithely writes in to the regulatory law the requirement for companies to submit 9610s to the IRS for every procurement action over $600. Folks who issue regulations such as these obviously have no concept of the cost of such regulations and the harm they will do.


Obama has already signaled his willingness to sign a bill that removes that requirement. Perhaps Republicans and Dems could work together on such a bill.

Quote:
There's a big elephant in the room and its hostility to business is already evident. Moreover it has already demonstrated a certain carelessness in thinking through the consequences of the regulations it issues so prodigiously and a lack of bacic competence in drafting them. That's more than enough to convincing folks with much to lose to hunker down and wait for a better elephant.


Oh, c'mon. I can't possibly be expected to counter paragraphs which are nothing more than partisan grumbling about the other side.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 04:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well--I must admit Cyclo that I had not read back so far. I find to debate on this thread a bit hard to take. I just popped in and saw your sentence castigating producers and took issue with it.

Quote:
I am glad to see that you agree, though, that producers of products ought to be held liable for the pollution produced during the creation and transport of those products.


How much pollution should consumers be made liable for? Won't it bankrupt us if our competitors don't bother about pollution? You statement is abstract and vague and just sounds good to the uncritical.

It's not a question of producers or consumers. It's the USA.

George can afford to make his gestures knowing that those who can't afford to make them will make sure they are not required.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 04:47 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Well--I must admit Cyclo that I had not read back so far. I find to debate on this thread a bit hard to take. I just popped in and saw your sentence castigating producers and took issue with it.

Quote:
I am glad to see that you agree, though, that producers of products ought to be held liable for the pollution produced during the creation and transport of those products.


How much pollution should consumers be made liable for?


All of it which can reasonably be shown to cause material harm to others. All of it which I have to pay to clean up out of the general fund. All which harms our natural wildlife and environment. Without exception.

Quote:
Won't it bankrupt us if our competitors don't bother about pollution? You statement is abstract and vague and just sounds good to the uncritical.


We have a variety of methods for dealing with this. Failure of other countries to properly clean up or care for their environment cannot be used as an excuse to not properly care for or clean up our environment.

Quote:
It's not a question of producers or consumers. It's the USA.

George can afford to make his gestures knowing that those who can't afford to make them will make sure they are not required.


Noted, but you are hardly an expert on the US, economics, production, pollution, or any topic, so your projections are worth extremely little.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 05:11 pm
Well, I am being overtaken by an influx of sons, daughters, real and in-law, and their progeny. Thanksgiving is upon us. it is a uniquely American holiday, one with its origius in the religious viewpoints of the Massachusetts Puritans, but which we celebrate now in imidation of what they did, but without any committment to their particular motivation. A good time to celebrate the good things we have and express gratitude for them ... to anyone or everyone.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 05:17 pm
@georgeob1,
Same to you, Georgeob. We are safely home, listening to updates from the Virginia State Police of backups on every interstate highway.
Let the cooking begin.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you here.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 05:32 pm
@realjohnboy,
I 64 southeast of Richmond is usually the worst. Still Virginia is a great place to live.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 06:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
All of it which can reasonably be shown to cause material harm to others. All of it which I have to pay to clean up out of the general fund. All which harms our natural wildlife and environment. Without exception.


Cripes--you're nuttier than I thought. What do you define as "reasonable"?

I'll not bother commenting on your view on what I'm an expert in. I expect no other.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 08:23 pm
@okie,
Well, perhaps, you wish to look into a mirror and stop asking people to apologize to you when they call you on your utter stupidity.

Why should we endure your constant begging for apologies? Take it like a man.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 08:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
THIS BEARS REPEATING:

Quote:

Second, you gotta understand that Obama really is a lot more centrist than you guys give him credit for
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

The States Need Help - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fiscal Cliff - Question by JPB
Let GM go Bankrupt - Discussion by Woiyo9
Sovereign debt - Question by JohnJD
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.11 seconds on 07/29/2025 at 01:57:31