114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 08:11 pm
@plainoldme,
That's a rather stupid and juvenile attempt at denigrating her. It says nothing about her and makes you look foolish.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 08:33 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

That's a rather stupid and juvenile attempt at denigrating her. It says nothing about her and makes you look foolish.

That statement by plainoldme in my opinion really should seal it for pom on this forum. I would ask all posters to completely condemn pom for posting one of the most repulsive and sick posts that I have ever read here. It really does not speak very well for her character, she must be one sick person emotionally. If she has one shred of decency, she could try to right herself by posting not only an apology, but one that has some measure of sincerity. Even all liberals should ask this of her.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 08:35 pm
@okie,
**** okie, if folks could call for an ousting of that sort, you'da been gone a long time ago...

get a clue, please.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 08:47 pm
@Rockhead,
That puts you in the same category when you defend her, Rockhead. She called for someone to commit suicide. Are you nuts? Are you people filled with that much hatred? And you know good and well I would not and have never said anything like that. To have you insinuate that is frankly insulting. An apology would be appropriate if you have any decency.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 08:50 pm
@okie,
okie, Are you nuts? Making a suggestion for anybody to commit suicide, and taking it seriously has a mental deficiency. Now, if I were to ask you to....
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 08:56 pm
@okie,
obviously I have no decency...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Sep, 2010 09:04 pm
For okie on unions in the US and Germany:
Quote:
Unions
Clearly, unions are much more powerful in Germany than in the US. They are huge, and they don't bother to bargain with individual employers: they talk directly to the employer's associations in the different fields. For instance, there is a single union representing everyone working with metal, and if this union decides to call for a general strike, a substantial part of the German economy stands still. If they win a regional contract, it will usually be adopted nation wide and will then apply to all employers in the field alike. Several large unions have recently merged in order to increase their power. It's virtually impossible to work in Germany and not have a union negotiated contract. There does not exist a minimum wage law, and there is no need for one. Only recently have some employers (mainly in Eastern Germany) tried to leave the employer's associations in order to avoid being bound by these contracts.

By contrast, American unions in most fields are weak and splintered (with some notable exceptions: police, construction, airline pilots, automobile industry, teachers). Often, different unions fight against each other. The historic alliance between unions and the mob is the most likely cause for the low moral authority attributed to US unions. This allows American employers to openly state their goal of keeping unions out of their business. A statement like that would create a huge outcry in German public debate, and it would not go unpunished. US unions are often hostile towards strike breakers and force all employees of a unionized company to join the union. This is not the case in Germany: if you don't want to join, you don't; you will still get the benefits of the negotiated contract. German unions often see themselves (and are sometimes seen) as working for the public good, for example when they try to come up with programs against joblessness; American unions are much more focused on their member's narrow interests. Here is an appalling example of this: the union of Californian prison guards actively lobbies for longer prison sentences. Another instance of this is that American police unions usually come out on the side of the officer in police-abuse cases, while the German police union typically sides with the abused party.

The whole bargaining process appears much more civilized in Germany. When the contract runs out, the parties meet, they can't agree at first, there's a strike which usually is only symbolical, and then a new contract is written up. Everybody pretty much agrees that this is a good process. In the US, individualism is so deeply rooted in the public mind that many people outright deny the right of workers to organize and bargain collectively (no one denies the right of capitalists to organize in huge corporations though...). Labor fights are often ugly and war-like and go on for a long time: employers hire replacement workers right away, they try to fire union organizers and other strikers (which is illegal in the US, as it is in Germany), strikers try to keep the replacement workers out etc. To a German, it looks a lot like the Manchester capitalism that seemed to have been overcome a long time ago.

Management of airlines in the US have figured out that by filing for bankruptcy, they can get out of their contracts with unionized pilots, flight attendants and mechanics, and can shed expensive health benefit and pension plans at the same time. All American airlines have now filed for bankruptcy. There is no public outcry whatsoever.

The management of US corporations is generally seen to be responsible only to shareholders. In Germany, management is seen to be responsible to shareholders and employees alike, even though this seems to be changing slowly in the American direction.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 06:56 am
@okie,
Quote:
. If she has one shred of decency, she could try to right herself by posting not only an apology, but one that has some measure of sincerity.

Oh good God okie..
You have no platform to call for decency from others. You post so much **** here and then you turn around and deny you wrote it. Decency and honesty have no place in what you post so I don't see how you can call for it in others.

When you claim Obama doesn't love his country. You are clearly implying he hates it. Your weasel argument is nothing but another of your many attempts to not be honest okie.

If you were honest, you could tell us what strong emotional feeling Obama has for his country that is not love. But you can't do that because it would show you are lying when you claim you don't intend to say Obama hates the US.




parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 06:58 am
@okie,
Quote:
Any disagreement with you, or somebody that tells you your opinions are wrong, you take it as an insult.

Right.. and you said I had no honesty and decency for stating you called for Obama's impeachment. You are nothing but a disingenuous turd okie.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 07:24 am
@plainoldme,
We could say the same thing about you
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:19 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

obviously I have no decency...

No you do not if you cannot bring yourself to apologize for defending a woman calling for someone with which she disagrees to commit suicide.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:30 am
@okie,
That's funny okie..

Can you show us where POM called for her to commit suicide?

keep in mind your standard of what is required to show something okie.
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:33 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
. If she has one shred of decency, she could try to right herself by posting not only an apology, but one that has some measure of sincerity.

Oh good God okie..
You have no platform to call for decency from others. You post so much **** here and then you turn around and deny you wrote it. Decency and honesty have no place in what you post so I don't see how you can call for it in others.

I disagree with people here, I thought that what political debate was about, but I have never called for anyone to commit suicide. That is frankly sick, parados, which I hope you would agree with.
Quote:
When you claim Obama doesn't love his country. You are clearly implying he hates it. Your weasel argument is nothing but another of your many attempts to not be honest okie.
parados, you seem incapable of interpreting what I have written. I know what I believe and so I don't think I would have written anything contrary to that. What I have written is that I do not think Obama has the same level of love for this country as other Americans. Does that mean I think he hates it. No, I don't think the translation is automatic at all. You can feel ambivalent or have feelings of resentments without actually hating someone or some thing. You can't see the difference? It is entirely logical that if you seem to talk constantly as Obama did during the campaign about changing America, it is entirely logical that he did not love America as it was, and therefore he wants to change it, and I think the changes are more than superficial or window dressing types of changes, I believe he wants to change the fabric or foundational design of the country. Again, does that mean he hates the country. No, obviously not to reasonable people, parados. I think he hates certain aspects of the country, or he has some hangups or bitterness about certain things, but that is not the same as a total outright hatred. If he really hated the country completely, he would probably have moved to some other country by now, after all he still has relatives in other countries. You are of course entitled to a different opinion.

Quote:
If you were honest, you could tell us what strong emotional feeling Obama has for his country that is not love. But you can't do that because it would show you are lying when you claim you don't intend to say Obama hates the US.

Again, I have explained for you in the above what I think in some detail, which I do not believe contradicts previous posts of mine. You accuse me of lying all the time. Now, you did come up with the example of me calling for Obama to be impeached, which I had forgotten, and when you posted it, I apologized for my error of memory in that regard. Now, if you can find any quote of mine wherein I said Obama hated the country, I will apologize again, however I do not recall ever saying those words. You have accused me of saying all kinds of stuff here for which you have provided no evidence, parados. I would suggest you be man enough to find my quotes to back up your claims or be man enough to apologize yourself, as I have done when I found out about the impeachment statement that I made. I tire of people like you that I feel distort and misquote what I have said, so I think its time you produce the goods or quit your accusations, one or the other.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:40 am
@parados,
Im not okie, but here are poms words...

Quote:
She hasn't committed suicide yet, which makes her an insult to all women and to all normal, law abiding citizens
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:48 am
@okie,
Quote:
Again, I have explained for you in the above what I think in some detail, which I do not believe contradicts previous posts of mine. You accuse me of lying all the time. Now, you did come up with the example of me calling for Obama to be impeached, which I had forgotten, and when you posted it, I apologized for my error of memory in that regard. Now, if you can find any quote of mine wherein I said Obama hated the country, I will apologize again, however I do not recall ever saying those words. You have accused me of saying all kinds of stuff here for which you have provided no evidence, parados. I would suggest you be man enough to find my quotes to back up your claims or be man enough to apologize yourself, as I have done when I found out about the impeachment statement that I made. I tire of people like you that I feel distort and misquote what I have said, so I think its time you produce the goods or quit your accusations, one or the other.

I guess you can apologize to POM then okie if you want to set this as your standard.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:49 am
@mysteryman,
But in okie's weasel world that isn't the same thing if he would have said it.

Okie says Obama doesn't love the US
Okie says Obama has strong feelings about the US.

Okie claims that doesn't mean Obama hates the US even though he can't provide a single strong emotion that isn't love.
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:54 am
@parados,
Im not getting into your argument with okie, but poms own words say that Jan Brewer should commit suicide, and that it would be better for everyone else if she did.

So in this case okie is correct and pom is wrong.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:56 am
How bout we all just move on from this? It has nothing to do with the economy at all.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 09:57 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

I guess you can apologize to POM then okie if you want to set this as your standard.
Read the quote provided by mm above. I started to provide the quote for you, but decided that it would only continue a futile argument with somebody that has no common sense whatsoever. I don't know if you can read with comprehension, parados, but read what pom wrote, as quoted by mm, and then honestly tell us if that isn't the same as suggesting that the governor of Arizona should commit suicide? We can continue this futile argument with you, parados, but I have never seen you ever admit to any error at all on your part, and you always defend fellow liberals to the hilt, almost without any regard as to what they have done. I don't expect any different out of you now.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 10:00 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

How bout we all just move on from this? It has nothing to do with the economy at all.

Cycloptichorn

I agree with that, however with one reservation, I think the credibility of certain posters here is of great importance, and if pom's post is defended by other posters, it also says something about the credibility of those defenders. I think for a civil discourse to occur here, we need to have folks from both sides of the aisle roundly condemn those posts that are really over the edge. That would at least help to some degree.
0 Replies
 
 

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