114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 12:42 pm
@parados,
Unfortunately, okie will continue to smell up a2k with his bull ****. There are enough of us to challenge almost everything he says by providing his own words that contradict themselves, and yet he keeps posting stupid stuff a five year old would have stopped long ago.
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 02:26 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
1. You have provided no evidence that would survive scrutiny that Obama has failed to comply with his oath of office.
2. You have provided no evidence that failure to comply with the oath is a high crime or misdemeanor.

FALSE! I HAVE PROVIDED THAT EVIDENCE HERE MANY MANY TIMES!

And you completely ignore the meaning of "general welfare" as defined by the Courts. Your argument is meaningless from a legal standpoint ican. The courts would laugh at you ican. You don't get to decide what is necessary for the "general welfare". Congress does. They decided and it stands legally as contributing to the "general welfare". You can whine and act like an idiot but it doesn't give your argument any weight. It only shows you are an idiot.

FALSE! THE CONSTITUTION MEANS WHAT IT SAYS AND SAYS WHAT IT MEANS! THE FEDERALIST PAPERS ARE FAR MORE ACCURATE THAN WHAT ANY CONTEMPORARY JUDGE HAS OR WILL SAY TO THE CONTRARY!

Quote:
Obama has ... done more than any other president but you just hate him to much to give him any credit. You are a moron ican.

FALSE!
THE MORE DONE BY OBAMA HAS DONE MORE DAMAGE TO THE USA THAN ANY OTHER PRESIDENT.

Quote:
It won't do squat to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. If that was your issue ican then push for a 55mph speed limit. It will do a lot more to reduce our dependence and a lot quicker than drilling in Anwar will. But you are lying about what the real issue is here aren't you ican. It's what disciples of Saul Alinsky do, isn't it?

FALSE! HOWEVER MUCH OIL IS OBTAINED WILL REDUCE HOW MUCH WE HAVE TO OBTAIN FROM FOREIGN OIL. REDUCING SPEED LIMITS TO 55 MPH WON'T DO SQUAT.

Quote:
Oh, you were hiding the issue again?

FALSE!
THE TITLE OF MY POST THAT YOU CRITIQUED IS "MUST DO" NOT SOMETHING ELSE.

Quote:
How many people pay more in income tax than the receive in SS benefits ican? Again, you are a complete moron.

FALSE! THIS FALSELY PARAPHRASES WHAT I POSTED.


To correctly paraphrase what I wrote, the last of the quotes of what you posted should have been:

How many people who pay income taxes pay more in income tax than THEY PAY IN SS DEDUCTIONS?

Answer: MOST!
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 02:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CICERONE IMPOSTER wrote:
okie will continue to smell up a2k with his bull ****. There are enough of us to challenge almost everything he says by providing his own words that contradict themselves, and yet he keeps posting stupid stuff ...

Cice, you're again true to form!

Saul Alinsky said and wrote:
->The radical is not a reformer of the system but its would-be destroyer;
->The revolutionary’s purpose is to undermine the system;
->The radical is building his own kingdom, a kingdom of heaven on earth;
->The radical underrmines the system by taking from the haves and giving it to the have nots;
->The most basic principle for radicals is lie to opponents;
->The issue is never the issue;
->The issue is always the revolution;
->The radical organizer does not have a fixed truth—truth to him is relative and changing;
->The stated cause is never the real cause, but only an occasion to advance the real cause;
->The real cause is the accumulation of power to make the revolution.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 03:00 pm
@ican711nm,
This is what you said ican
Quote:

8. Replace these federal expenditures with tax exemptions
--Medicare
--Medicare
--retirement insurance

An expenditure is a payment.
The only people getting SS payments are retired.

This doesn't paraphrase what you said ican. It isn't even close to what you said originally.
Quote:

To correctly paraphrase what I wrote, the last of the quotes of what you posted should have been:

How many people who pay income taxes pay more in income tax than THEY PAY IN SS DEDUCTIONS?

Answer: MOST!


You are obviously lying to us ican. It seems you are a disciple of Alinsky. You are the one quoting him repeatedly ican.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 03:08 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
FALSE! THE CONSTITUTION MEANS WHAT IT SAYS AND SAYS WHAT IT MEANS! THE FEDERALIST PAPERS ARE FAR MORE ACCURATE THAN WHAT ANY CONTEMPORARY JUDGE HAS OR WILL SAY TO THE CONTRARY!
The judges that made that decision are all dead ican. They were a lot closer to the time of the Founders than you are. They were also a lot more educated on the Constitution and the Federalist papers than you are. It's you that is being contrary to the Constitution ican when you ignore court rulings on the meanings of laws and the Constitution. Clearly you despise the Constitution or you would accept that courts are the deciding force for interpretations of the law.


Quote:

FALSE! HOWEVER MUCH OIL IS OBTAINED WILL REDUCE HOW MUCH WE HAVE TO OBTAIN FROM FOREIGN OIL. REDUCING SPEED LIMITS TO 55 MPH WON'T DO SQUAT.

http://www.oilempire.us/55mph.html
Quote:
The US could immediately reduce oil consumption by an estimated 4% by rolling back highway speed limits to 55 mph (90 kph), a policy originally enacted by Richard Nixon in the wake of the 1973 Saudi Oil Embargo. This would reduce more oil consumption than the current flow through the Alaska Pipeline and would not require any technological innovations,


Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — An influential Republican senator suggested Thursday that Congress might want to consider reimposing a national speed limit to save gasoline and possibly ease fuel prices.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11525.html

But then you continue down your lying path. When threatened you use all caps hoping no one will notice that the words contained in your statements are idiotic and meaningless.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 03:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Unfortunately, okie will continue to smell up a2k with his bull ****. There are enough of us to challenge almost everything he says by providing his own words that contradict themselves, and yet he keeps posting stupid stuff a five year old would have stopped long ago.

Speaking of bull, you and pom can't read a sentence with comprehension. I am about to give up on you people, its a waste of time to argue with complete dunces. Or complete liars, one or the other. I have a hard time believing you are telling the truth when you claim, ci, that "too much government interference" means exactly the same as any "government interference." And pom claims that my statement that relatives or surviving members of families of 9/11 victims should be asked for their input or opinion about a perimeter around Ground Zero, that is the same as me asserting that they should determine the perimeter. You people are either liars or just plain stupid. Are you people good examples or representative of most liberals? If you are, no wonder the country is on the brink of bankruptcy and destruction because of all kinds of dumb policies.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 03:58 pm
Back to the real subject here, Obama's economy, is Obama making political death bed decisions as a last gasp effort to revive the economy and hopefully help salvage something for the Democrats in the upcoming election? But as the video points out, Obama will probably slip tax hikes in with his upcoming proposals as well.

In my opinion, as uncertainty continues, so will the economy continue to flounder under the Democrats, and they seem not to have a clue how to stimulate manufacturing here in this country again.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 03:59 pm
@okie,
okie, You "should" give up on "us" people. Since you like to be shown how foolish and uninformed you are about economics and politics, it will save you many hours of wasted time that you bother to spend on a2k.

You can reduce our challenges if you would do a simple search on Google or any other reliable/credible sources with unbiased facts and opinions. Your problem is your indoctrination from FOX News; they're not "fair and balanced" as they claim.

Your life will become much more sane, pleasant, and easier to live - in the world of common sense and logic.



okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 04:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Actually, I have been tempted to save myself the waste of time arguing with knuckleheads. I think a number of people have indeed given up and have concluded it isn't worth the grief of it. Remember Foxfyre? She was a reasonable person that had common sense, but she apparently got tired of being hassled by folks like you, ci.

Actually ci, I would like to actually find out what even liberals think about the economy, which is supposed to be the subject here. And I would advise you to check out Fox News and get over your biased viewpoints so that you could actually learn something sensible, and that would include you listening and watching what Fox has to offer, along with your liberal sources too. You could start by watching the Youtube video that I have posted above and let us know what you think. A reasoned opinion instead of calling conservatives stupid would be a step in the right direction for you.
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 04:20 pm
I MAKE A MOTION THAT THE TEAPARTY NOW ADVOCATE THE FOLLOWING SEVEN OBJECTIVES FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN 2011:
1. IMPEACH & REMOVE PRESIDENTS WHO DO NOT COMPLY WITH THEIR OATH OR AFFIRMATION TO PRESERVE, PROTECT, AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION
2. LIMIT CONGRESS’S POWERS TO TAX TO THOSE POWERS GRANTED IT BY THE
CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE I, SECTION 8.
3. CONTINUE THE 2010 TAX SYSTEM UNTIL A SIMPLER, FLATTER AND FAIRER TAX CAN BE
ADOPTED
4. RESCIND THESE FEDERAL EXPENDITURES
FANNY MAE & FREDDY MAC
TARP & STIMULUS
OBAMA HEALTHCARE
EAR MARKS
5. CLOSE OUR BORDERS TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
6. PERMIT DRILLING FOR OIL OFF SHORE AND IN 19 HUNDRED OF THE 19 MILLION ACRES OF
ANWR
7. AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO REQUIRE THAT BEFORE SUBMITTING ANY BILL FOR THE PRESIDENT TO SIGN, CONGRESS SHALL SPECIFY WHEREIN THE CONSTITUTION CONGRESS IS GRANTED THE POWER TO SUBMIT THAT THAT BILL TO THE PRESIDENT.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 05:14 pm
@okie,
I'm not a "liberal" by any definition of that word; I'm an independent who votes based on who represents my personal interests; it doesn't matter which "party" the candidate belongs in.

Most of my fiscal views are much closer to conservative thinking; small government, pay as you go, and minimize government intrusion into commerce where it's possible. Some laws are needed to keep people honest, and to protect consumers.

I believe in comparative advantage concerning world trade, but most countries use tariffs and other forms of non-competitive means to win contracts in the world marketplace. A good example of that would be the Airbus which is subsidized by the Euro countries vs US aircraft manufacturers who must compete based on cost plus.

The US creates many handicaps by ourselves by limiting nuclear power and exploration for oil. We also had stupid laws which prevented cruise ships from landing in US ports twice in a row without touching some foreign port.

Our government spends too much on social benefits that are not paid for by taxes, but increases our national debt. This increase in debt cannot be sustained to keep our country competitive in the world marketplace. When our currency loses value, our ability to compete in the world marketplace will decrease, and everything we wish to buy will increase. That's called inflation.

FOX News is reflected in your posts on a2k; it's not necessary for me to watch a station that freezes your brain. You have lost your ability at rational thinking, and go so far as to inflame readers of your post with lies and innuendos that do not hold up to the facts, the US Constitution, or to common sense.

Not many on a2k question what I post; that tells me on a personal level that I have done my homework pretty well. When people question my opinion, I ask them to cut and paste to show me where I said it; they never seem to respond. Most of your posts are challenged by many on a2k, but that doesn't seem to phase you; it would be a wake-up call for most humans.



0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 05:15 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Remember Foxfyre? She was a reasonable person that had common sense,


Oh, jeez. Even you know better than that.

Cycloptichorn
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 05:15 pm
@ican711nm,
Ican proposes the Tea Party ignore the US Constitution.

Isn't that nice?

What do you expect from someone that is willing to take money unconstitutionally?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 05:18 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Remember Foxfyre? She was a reasonable person that had common sense, but she apparently got tired of being hassled by folks like you, ci.

Foxfyre has left on at least 3 separate occasions because people disagreed with her. It had nothing to do with "common sense" okie. It had to do with she couldn't defend her positions and realized she had made a fool of herself. So she disappears for a while until she forgets or hopes others forget and then she comes back.
talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 06:08 pm
@parados,
In another name I suppose. Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Mr. Green Drunk
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 06:12 pm
@talk72000,
Yeah, but there are enough old-timers to know their rhetorical style, and that's very difficult to hide. Remember massagatto? LOL

Betcha, if okie left and changed his name before returning, most of us would know.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 06:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I am sure Ican is massagato as he repeats the same crap. Only now he doesn't use profanity.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 08:52 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
Remember Foxfyre? She was a reasonable person that had common sense, but she apparently got tired of being hassled by folks like you, ci.

Foxfyre has left on at least 3 separate occasions because people disagreed with her. It had nothing to do with "common sense" okie. It had to do with she couldn't defend her positions and realized she had made a fool of herself. So she disappears for a while until she forgets or hopes others forget and then she comes back.

That is your opinion, parados, thats all it is, and is there anyone around here more biased and partisan than you? You would defend Pretty Boy Floyd if he was a Democrat congressman.

It is my opinion that Foxfyre was one of the nicest, most logical, and more sensible posters on this forum back when I first joined up here. I believe her leaving has left a huge hole in the amount of reasoned and logical posts.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 09:30 pm
@okie,
That's because you have no logic to compare to.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 09:43 pm
@parados,
Did ican write (I stopped reading his posts, along with several other a2kers) that the "Federalist Papers are far more accurate than what any contemporary judge has or will say to the contrary?"


1.) Does ican understand the Federalist Papers were one side of a debate among the Founding Fathers? Does he know there were Anti-Federalist Papers? Does he understand the difference between the two?

2.) Does he know who the Federalist authors were?

3.) Does he understand that the Federalist authors were opposed to the Bill of Rights?

4.) Does he understand that Hamilton established the principle of judicial review by federal courts of federal legislation through one of the Papers? Both ican and okie hate the notion of judicial review, despite the fact that Hamilton -- who should be one of their heroes -- proposed it in the Federalist Papers -- documents that ican here upholds as a model of governmental perfection. How could Hamilton have proposed something that ican hates? Doesn't ican realize that judicial review is a means of perfecting government? Does he understand the balance of power that was designed to keep any one branch of government from becoming too powerful? Does he know that Madison used the Federalist Papers to develop the very idea of checks and balances?

5.) Does he understand that the Anti-Federalist Papers began appearing within a week of the Constitution having been sent to the states for ratification?

6.) Does he understand that despite his approval of, and, support for, the Bill of Rights, that Jefferson felt that the list of rights should not be exhaustive. Hamilton, who masterminded the project, feared that listing the rights people were entitled to might limit said rights. In fact, people who thought as Hamilton did wanted the judiciary to "interpret these rights in an expansive fashion (Wiki; The Federalist Papers)."

An expansive fashion sounds like the sort of measure taken by the SC in Brown v the Board of Education at Topeka. Again, it would seem ican disagrees with Hamilton! Wow! Ican disagrees with a Founding Father!

7.) Although in his post, ican claims to be prescient (watch him contradict me, but when one says "what any contemporary judge . . . will say," one is acting as though one is prescient), he is wrong in stating that the Papers are "more accurate (based on what assessment?)" than contemporary judicial rulings. The reality is that judges use the Federalist Papers to determine the intention of the FFs. According to Wiki, the Papers have been quoted 291 times.

So, how can contemporary rulings be less accurate than the Papers if said rulings are based upon the Papers?

Furthermore, the use of the Papers is not greeted with universal approval. Even Chief Justice John Marshall felt that "progress in our government" may cause judges to question the "correctness" of the papers, while Madison, another Federalist, said the Papers should not be viewed as "authoritative."

In other words, the Constitution and the Federalist Papers should both be "living" documents; the Founders did not guarantee their own rectitude, and, government should progress and develop.


 

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