Where is the US economy headed?

@djjd62,

(Thanks, djjd62. I didn't mean to derail the thread you started today re Freddie. But this is the place where most of the snarling goes on. I will go back and invite Amigo to come over, also. He will fit right in here.)

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Housing. There is a book called Paper Money written in the early 80s that discusses using houses as investments.

Things to consider: that until WWII, housing values were stable. They rose very slightly until the 1970s when the Baby Boomers . . . the result of the most joyous homecoming since Ulysses . . . hit the housing market.

More people chasing the same amount goods meant the price had to rise. Then, houses became an investment. Then the divorce boom hit and families lived in two houses. That's what was behind the bubble. The bubble itself was the greed that took over and the folks who came up with all manner of questionable financial vehicles that crashed and burned . . . without seatbelts and air bags.

Looking to housing to revive the economy is stupid.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Pfff, to hell with your Objectivist clap-trap. 'Doers' versus 'takers.' It's all about greed with you guys in the end, every time.

Cycloptichorn

Obama is the guy into greed, as well as you, take from the producers and give to the non-producers.

There is no such distinction as 'producers vs. non-producers.' This is the error of your thinking. You are buying into Randian stereotypes that don't accurately describe our world at all.Cycloptichorn

I don't want one of your lousy stinking dimes, cyclops, got that, so get lost. So would you quit using the word "greed" when you don't even know what it means, okay. Maybe you need to look at the few billion needed to prop up a lousy government loan company scheme to help people buy houses they couldn't afford. That is what might be really labeled as greed.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Pfff, to hell with your Objectivist clap-trap. 'Doers' versus 'takers.' It's all about greed with you guys in the end, every time.

Cycloptichorn

Obama is the guy into greed, as well as you, take from the producers and give to the non-producers.

There is no such distinction as 'producers vs. non-producers.' This is the error of your thinking. You are buying into Randian stereotypes that don't accurately describe our world at all.Cycloptichorn

I don't want one of your lousy stinking dimes, cyclops, got that, so get lost.

I don't know what this means. But even more so, I would give you a dime if you needed it, because truthfully I can get by fine with less then what I currently have.

Quote:

So would you quit using the word "greed" when you don't even know what it means, okay.

I just posted a definition a page back, so yeah - I think I know what it means.

Quote:

Maybe you need to look at the few billion needed to prop up a lousy government loan company scheme to help people buy houses they couldn't afford. That is what might be really labeled as greed.

Why is that greedy? Both Republicans and Democrats have promoted home ownership as a pillar of our society for a long time.

I would also point out that loans guaranteed under the CRA (houses for poor folks who couldn't afford them) were much less likely to default than privately offered mortgages to middle-class and rich folks...

Cycloptichorn

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Wow! With a little more than an hour to go, U.S. stock indices are in a dramatic free fall. Dow down something like 900 points.

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

Wow! With a little more than an hour to go, U.S. stock indices are in a dramatic free fall. Dow down something like 900 points.

Obamanomics!

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

Wow! With a little more than an hour to go, U.S. stock indices are in a dramatic free fall. Dow down something like 900 points.

****, really?

Wow. It just rebounded about 400 points to -517 or so. Is this the European situation bleeding over or something else?

Cycloptichorn

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@H2O MAN,

Have you ever heard of Greece or Portugal? They are countries in Europe. Have you ever heard of Europe?

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@realjohnboy,

-383 - whatever had them spooked so bad is trying to rally before 3 for sure

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

There was some tepidly good news in the U.S. early on (a small rise in productivity, fewer new claims for unemployment and retail sales for April that were okay). The two big negatives continue to be Greece and Portugal plus the possibility (probability) of a hung Parliament in the U.K. after today's elections.

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@realjohnboy,

Have you ever heard of a what Obama calls "fundamental change"? Obama is the US president. Have you ever heard of Obama?

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@H2O MAN,

Why did you delete your post?

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@realjohnboy,

Your post is missing.

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Lest we forget,
OBAMA'S TOTAL CIVIL EMPLOYMENT RECOVERY IS VERY SMALL COMPARED TO WHAT THE UNEMPLOYED REQUIRE..

Quote:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Year………………………..USA Total Civil Employed
...
2001………………..............136,933,000 [BUSH43 2001 TO 2009]
...
2007...........................146,047,000
...
2008:
...
August........................ 145,273,000
September.................. 145,029,000
October....................... 144,650,007
November................... 144,144,000
December.................... 143,338,000

2009: [OBAMA 2009 TO ?]
January.................... 142,221
February................... 141,687
March......................140,854
April...................... 140,902
May........................ 140,438
June....................... 140,038
July....................... 139,817
August..................... 139,433
September................ 138,768
October.................... 138,242
November................... 138,381
December................... 137,792

2010:
January (3)................ 138,333
February................... 138,641
March...................... 138,905

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The free fall from around -350 to -900 happened at around 2:45 pm ET. There was not any single event at that time. The guessing is that, in this age of instant electronic transactions, a drop of 50 or 100 points triggered the cancellation of a large number of bids (i.e. offers to buy stocks).

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

Quote:

The free fall from around -350 to -900 happened at around 2:45 pm ET. There was not any single event at that time. The guessing is that, in this age of instant electronic transactions, a drop of 50 or 100 points triggered the cancellation of a large number of bids (i.e. offers to buy stocks).

they are reporting that there was a trading error by a human. We better hope this is true, because the alt would be that the traders have pre programmed to get out of the market before the next crash. If the major players dont have faith in the stocks holding up we are all in trouble.

If it was human error this is another in the long list of recent evidence that our financial system does not work.

Either way this trading today is a bad sign.

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Returning to the productivity numbers out today:
Productivity is defined as the value of goods produced per hour of labor. For the 1st quarter of 2010, productivity increased at an annualized rate of 3.6%. The rate was 3.7% for all of 2009 vs 2.0% in 2008.
This is good for the profits of companies producing stuff. It is, arguably, good for the country as we compete with products made abroad. And it is good for people with the means to buy stuff. There tends to be little inflation.
The flip side, though, is that it is bad for the worker who is no longer needed as companies produce more with less.
Personal household income accounts for 70% of economic activity in the US.

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@realjohnboy,

Quote:

The flip side, though, is that it is bad for the worker who is no longer needed as companies produce more with less.
Personal household income accounts for 70% of economic activity in the US.

not good for anyone....workers are overworked and non workers have too much time on their hands and either are on the dole or are desperate. This is how the social contract unravels folks.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I don't know what this means. But even more so, I would give you a dime if you needed it, because truthfully I can get by fine with less then what I currently have.

Then give some or more to charity, I am sure you can find one that is good out there, and chances are it will be infinitely more efficient than a government program in helping somebody.

Quote:

Quote:
So would you quit using the word "greed" when you don't even know what it means, okay.

I just posted a definition a page back, so yeah - I think I know what it means.

How about this definition: greed (excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves)

Quote:

Quote:
Maybe you need to look at the few billion needed to prop up a lousy government loan company scheme to help people buy houses they couldn't afford. That is what might be really labeled as greed.

Why is that greedy? Both Republicans and Democrats have promoted home ownership as a pillar of our society for a long time.

Because if somebody can't afford something, likely they don't deserve to buy it. Sure, home ownership is good, but owning something if you can't pay for it is not to be complimented or promoted.

Quote:

I would also point out that loans guaranteed under the CRA (houses for poor folks who couldn't afford them) were much less likely to default than privately offered mortgages to middle-class and rich folks...

Cycloptichorn

Okay, lets cut to the chase, I propose we eliminate CRA and we also eliminate Fannie and Freddie, and let all those poor folks go get a loan from any bank, after all they can afford them and much less likely to default on the loans. How about it, cyclops, lets straighten this mess out once and for all.

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@okie,

Quote:

Then give some or more to charity, I am sure you can find one that is good out there, and chances are it will be infinitely more efficient than a government program in helping somebody.

I give both money and time to charity, but also to the Government who helps many of the causes I support, through my taxes.

Quote:

Okay, lets cut to the chase, I propose we eliminate CRA and we also eliminate Fannie and Freddie, and let all those poor folks go get a loan from any bank, after all they can afford them and much less likely to default on the loans. How about it, cyclops, lets straighten this mess out once and for all.

Fine with me! Phase out the home-ownership tax breaks as well and you would outline my preferred strategy.

What exactly did you expect me to say?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Where is the US economy headed?

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