Where is the US economy headed?

Where is the other 50%? Under a bed in the WH?

Then you adjust to the situation accordingly. You are describing every single day, of every year, of every decade that our government has been in operation. This notion that one cannot act without greater assurance than best projections is a total joke.



Well, it's the House and Senate bills which have projections tied to them; but I would blame Obama if he signs a bill that turns out to be a total failure, yes.

Cycloptichorn

I don't think that this is 'evident' at all.

I also don't understand your position, that the government should do nothing. We clearly have a major problem that is a huge threat to our economy and nation. Doing nothing isn't really an option.

Cycloptichorn

Hey, dummy, I never said the government "should do nothing." Where did I ever say that? Please cut and paste from any of my posts.

What the "evidence" suggests is what I've described in my many posts on this subject.

Oh, so you have an alternate plan? I haven't heard one articulated. Just a lot of complaints about the one that is being put forth.

The truth is that they are doing the best job they can, and that the product of this will always be flawed in some ways. You ought to be supporting what the Dems are doing right now instead of constantly attacking it, because it represents the best hope we currently have of fixing a fucked situation.



You are simply incorrect. Projections are going to be off, in ANY SCENARIO, a large percentage of the time. The government can't create programs which are recession proof! The fact that Medicare and SS are in trouble right now is not due to a deficiency with those programs, or some problem on the part of those who created it.

Cycloptichorn

I never said I had an "alternative plan." Why would I? That I'm leary about our government's driving into bigger deficits is my complaint. That's a very important issue that seems lost on the current congress. Provide health insurance to 30 million plus more people. What's the cost, and who's going to pay for it? Is the extra taxes for the wealthy going to pay for all of it?

When is our economy going to improve to the point where our deficit is reduced?

The conservatives have done a great job of misleading seniors into thinking we're going to be short-changed with this reform. Who's to blame for that?

Those are both your quotes.
Yet you blasted the Bush admin when any of their projections were off.
You cant have it both ways.

Are you talking about the Public Option? It will be paid by the premiums of those who are enrolled in it, just like private insurance.



It will help subsidize those who cannot afford the premiums due to poverty, yes.



A combination of the Conservatives and the Seniors themselves, who apparently can't be bothered to do a single bit of actual research on the issue.

Cycloptichorn

RETAIL
I hate to interrupt this discussion but I find this kind of interesting.
Major retailers on Thursday will announce their same store sales numbers for October vs September and for October, 2009, vs October, 2008. Analysts predict that in each case there will be an increase of 1 to 2%.
But:
I have mentioned before that I am part of a survey by the Federal Reserve Bank in the 5th District. I got the "flash" report for October on Monday. Bleak.
September was looking somewhat good. But in October (through the 20th), we as a group reported sharp decreases in sales and shopper traffic. And we are shedding employees.

Likewise, I work for a financial company and our consumer spending divisions are reporting that customers have spent less money from September to October and down quite a bit from last year to this year.

Number of sales is pretty flat, but the amount of money spent per sale is down 6%, month over month, and 18% year over year.

The New Republic Magazine currently has a piece on California that is amazing. The state is totally screwed, facing massive cut backs in the government and an inability to raise sufficient revenue. Due to a proposition, only one-third of the legislature can block a tax increase, which makes if almost impossible to raise sufficient money. There is a horrendous disparity of income that is almost bound to bring adverse consequences between the classes and races.

It's not only the state finances that are out of wack; local governments are struggling to pay for luxury benefits for the government employees that includes 90% retirement pay plus health insurance for all who have worked for 30-years. Many retire at 55, and get benefits for much longer than they've ever worked. Police and firemen/women claim disability (the highest in California) and they don't have to pay income taxes on their retirement benefits. All this while they continue to cut back on basic services for the people of the county/cities.

Taxpayers are screwed!

When I volunteered for civil grand jury service in 2003-2004, we told the county and San Jose City that their safety officer benefits were too generous, but they claimed they had to continue their benefits to be competitive for recruitment. Who in their right mind would not work for them with that kind of benefit? Work 30 years, and get benefits until you die at 85 years old; or about 40-years at 90% plus ensured increases.

California must cut its expenses. The first cut should be cutting the number of gov't employees. It's second cut should be cutting gov't employee wages, benefits, and retirements payments. It's third cut should be freeing up more of its water resources for human use rather than non-edible water life. It's fourth cut should be cutting health insurance. It's fifth cut should be cutting other non-essential expenses.

Probably stashed there waiting for ACORN to come and pick it up with an armored car?

here in Washington state we run on two year budgets. This spring we did a two year, cut something like $8 billion, which was based upon conservative "worse case" assumptions. Two days ago it was announced that there is now a $1.8 billion hole in the last year of this two year budget. Three weeks ago it was $1.5 billion, it is growing. a state budget number cruncher geek was telling me that the year after, when the federal stim runs out, currently looks like the end of the world as we know it.

No Okie, Republicans are skilled in the art of "doublespeak". Coded language that skilled racists use so as NOT to be called racist. They don't speak the obvious words; no, they use words like, "inexperienced", "he's not an American", "we're going to show THEM, by storming the White House and getting THEM, OUT of our house", just spoken yesterday by Pat Boone! "Why can't the kids go to public school", referring to Sasha and Malia. "Why does she wear sleeveless clothes", referring to Mrs. Obama. And on and on. The party of NO can't find ANY redeeming value of a couple that has done all the things society says Blacks should do to show their "patriotism" and be more like "one of us"! Obama didn't wear a "flag" pin like Bush & Cheney, Cheney being the best "draft dodger" in the 20th century, so Obama began wearing one and that not being good enough, was criticized FOR wearing one! Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Let's face it, it's his color isn't it? Not WHITE enough? Hell, he's only HALF!
Shoot! At least I know how he became half. For millions of Blacks descended from Slaves in the United States, FEW of us know who we descended from, by design! My great grandmother, a former slave, had 2 sets of children. 1 set by her husband and another from her master! I questioned my mother as to who her father was from. She answered, "her husband". I'm not sure my mother was telling the truth, but at that time, I believed anything my Mother said to me. I was taught to never be alone on the street, never speak to strangers and avoid whites. It was for my safety.

Things your mother teaches you. The whites in our neighborhood was exempt from this warning, as all colors in my neighborhood were Catholic. In addition to tending to us, my Mother tended their families in times of illness, death or trouble, in addition to caring for 4 children. Everybody loved my mother and she told us that our neighbors were "good" white people. So I grew up with a sense that not all whites were bad. I loved them like they were relatives. Played in their yards and ate from their tables. It was a crazy kind of segregation, because we couldn't sit together on the bus or in church. On our street we virtually did everything together. I still love them.

Aldous Huxley did say that California was a new experiment in human affairs.

It is reasonable to expect new experiments to be a bit rickety. Look at the first flying machine as an example.

teeny, No matter how hard you try to explain the realities of minorities in this country to okie, it's a waste of effort. He's one of those "superior" white guys who thinks he understands all - while in actuality he understands very little. His opinions shows his racist leanings, because he just can't see what we see.

he said that while living in New Mexico with DH Lawrence ingesting peyote buttons.