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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:07 pm
@okie,
where did you hear that auto loans became easy to get again?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:15 pm
@okie,
okie, You must stop going around the block; it hasn't helped you one iota!

Please tell us the name of the car dealer(s) who's selling cars to people who can't afford it?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't think they need to be easier to get, to result in more repos. You always have a percentage of people that buy cars that really should not afford them, and they end up losing a job, or they just don't budget for it properly, and can't make the payments. With an incentive to bring old cars in, you are encouraging more people, and more people with marginal credit, to come in with the idea of not missing out on the deal of a lifetime. Suckers tend to buy into these kinds of programs, kind of like people that play the lotteries, something for nothing hopes. And the dealers are motivated to make deals, there is money to be made for them, so you don't need to change the credit landscape, just increasing the numbers of buyers and marginal buyers, and I think it will result into more repos.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:18 pm
@okie,
Comparing the purchasing of a car to a lottery is like comparing apples and eggs.

okie doesn't have the common sense to even understand that dealers who sell to people who can't afford them will only lose out and go bankrupt.

Which car dealers are selling cars to people who can't afford it? Please provide us with the name of the car dealer and where they are located.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Comparing the purchasing of a car to a lottery is like comparing apples and eggs.

okie doesn't have the common sense to even understand that dealers who sell to people who can't afford them will only lose out and go bankrupt.

Which car dealers are selling cars to people who can't afford it? Please provide us with the name of the car dealer and where they are located.


What is the politburo's phone number, and maybe I will call them and report them?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:41 pm
@okie,
You're not answering my questions, okie. Please provide the dealer's name and address/location where they are selling cars to people who can't afford them? You made the claim, now provide proof.

It's like all your claims; worthless!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Please tell us the name of the car dealer(s) who's selling cars to people who can't afford it?

Am I supposed to report it to who? Who is "us"? Is that the Politburo, or Obama's Car Czar? Or is it the Americorp? Or ACORN? Or Geithner, the tax cheat?

Actually, its none of your business, ci.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 10:59 pm
@okie,
Besides, it is not the responsibility of merchants to determine who can afford to buy their merchandise. It isn't usually the dealer that loans the money for a new car anyway, is it?
0 Replies
 
marsz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 11:09 pm
.Americans are streaming back into auto showrooms, and one reason is the “cash for clunkers” subsidy. Democrats are naturally claiming this is a great success, while Republicans are claiming that because the program has run out of clunker cash so quickly, this proves government can’t run the health-care system. How do we elect these people? What the clunker policy really proves is that Americans aren’t stupid and will let some other taxpayer buy them a free lunch if given the chance.

The buying spree is good for the car companies, if only for the short term and for certain car models. It’s good, too, for folks who’ve been sitting on an older car or truck but weren’t sure they had the cash to trade it in for something new. Now they get a taxpayer subsidy of up to $4,500, which on some models can be 25% of the purchase price. It’s hardly surprising that Peter is willing to use a donation from his neighbor Paul, midwifed by Uncle Sugar, to class up his driveway.

On the other hand, this is crackpot economics. The subsidy won’t add to net national wealth, since it merely transfers money to one taxpayer’s pocket from someone else’s, and merely pays that taxpayer to destroy a perfectly serviceable asset in return for something he might have bought anyway. By this logic, everyone should burn the sofa and dining room set and refurnish the homestead every couple of years.

It isn’t clear this will even lead to more auto production over time, since the clunker cash may simply cause buyers to move their purchases forward. GDP will get a fillip in the third and perhaps fourth quarters, which will please the Obama Administration. But the test will be if auto sales hold up next year and into the future once the clunker checks go away. The debate over the subsidy may even have prolonged this year’s auto slump as buyers delayed their purchases waiting for the free lunch.

All of Washington professes to be surprised that the $1 billion allocated to the subsidy has been used up so quickly, but giving away money is one thing government knows how to do. The Clunkers who are in Congress are now patting themselves on the back for their great success, and the House quickly voted to pass out another $2 billion in clunker coupons. With a $1.8 trillion budget deficit, who’s going to notice this pocket change?

Clearly, we spoilsports need an attitude adjustment to Washington’s new economics. And since money is no object, let’s give everyone a $4,500 voucher for other consumer goods. Let’s have taxpayers subsidize the purchase of kitchen appliances, women’s clothing, the latest Big Bertha driver"our Taylor-made is certainly a clunker"and new fishing boats. These are hardly less deserving of subsidies than cars, and as long as everyone thinks we can conjure wealth out of $4,500 giveaways, let’s go all the way.

roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 11:33 pm
@marsz,
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 03:02 pm
Maybe you guys discussed this on a day I wasn't closely following this thread, but I'm thinking this story was probably quickly on and off the front pages if it ever got there at all.

The worst thing in it is several paragraphs deep--I highlighted it.

To put this into perspective, $24 trillion = $80,000 for every man, woman, and child in America - $320,000 for a family of four.

Anybody want to speculate on how much stimulus that kind of debt provides for an economy?

Quote:
Senior Democrats call on Treasury to be more open
By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer
Tue Jul 21, 1:54 pm ET

WASHINGTON " Two senior congressional Democrats pointedly called on the Obama administration Tuesday to make the $700 billion financial bailout program more visible and accountable to taxpayers, with one complaining that the Treasury Department's approach to the fund is, "Don't ask, don't tell."

Rep. Edolphus Towns of New York, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and Sen. Max Baucus of Montana, who heads the Senate Finance Committee, insisted that Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner adopt recommendations from a government watchdog that the department has resisted.

"If Treasury does not put this information up on its Web site, this Committee will and if Treasury does not turn over this information voluntarily Secretary Geithner will be brought before the Committee to explain why not," Towns said.

The blunt criticism came as the oversight committee heard testimony from special inspector general Neil Barofsky, who oversees the massive Troubled Asset Relief Program. Barofsky on Tuesday delivered a quarterly report to Congress sharply critical of Treasury's reluctance to better track how federal bailout money is being spent.

"The Special IG's recommendations on transparency are critical to the success of the program, and I will be pressing the secretary of Treasury to adopt these standards," Baucus said.

Towns added: "The taxpayers now have a $700 billion spending program that's being run under the philosophy of 'don't ask, don't tell."

In his report, Barofsky said Treasury has accepted some of his recommendations for greater accountability, but that the department has not taken steps to require all TARP recipients to report on their actual use of funds. He said Treasury also should report the values of its investments in banks and other financial institutions, disclose the identity of borrowers under a nonrecourse loan program and disclose trading activity under a public-private investment fund.

Barofsky pointed out that in response to a survey by his office, banks were able to provide information on how they used TARP money even though Treasury has declined to seek similar information.

"The evidence is as we suspected," Barofsky said. "Contrary to Treasury's suggestions, banks can and should be required to report on how they're using funds."

Barofsky also cited accountability weaknesses in a new public private investment fund initiated by Treasury that is designed to purchase mortgage-backed assets that have clogged bank balance sheets. The federal share of the program is $30 billion.

He said Treasury has declined to adopt a recommendation that would require the nine firms selected for the program to create an internal wall between the officials managing the government partnership and those handling the rest of the firm's work. The firewall would prevent a firm from generating profits in its other business as a result of knowledge gained from its purchase of toxic assets with the government.

Summing up the effectiveness of the $700 billion TARP, Barofsky said:

"If the goal was to remove $700 billion of toxic assets off the books of financial institutions, that clearly has not happened. If the goal was to increase lending, I think that, too, unfortunately has not happened. If the goal was to avoid a complete systemic collapse of the financial industry, that may very well have happened."

Barofsky said he doubted that the government would recoup all of the money spent from the $700 billion fund.

"The idea of getting dollar for dollar return would be extremely unlikely," he said.

Barofsky defended his conclusion that the government's total potential exposure to assist the financial sector could total $23.7 trillion " about $10 trillion more than the size of the entire U.S. economy. The figure includes programs run by the Federal Reserve, Treasury and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. . . .
MORE HERE:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_meltdown_oversight
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 04:06 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:

To put this into perspective, $24 trillion = $80,000 for every man, woman, and child in America - $320,000 for a family of four.


To really put this in perspective, you have to realize how idiotic the whole '24 trillion' number is. And you probably shouldn't have cut the article when you did, b/c the next two lines are:

Quote:

He acknowledged that actual government spending on the financial sector peaked at $4.7 trillion and now stands closer to $3 trillion.

"The important caveat is we don't have $23.7 trillion outstanding right now," he said.


If you took the absolute worse case scenario, and the US economy and government completely collapsed - that 23 trillion number is what that scenario would cost. Otherwise, it's useless.

Cycloptichorn
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 04:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Okay, best case scenario; I've got this rich uncle I never knew about. . . .
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 07:32 pm
@roger,
Well, you have a rich uncle, but I have good friends in Nigeria. They've already promised to send me money.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 08:51 pm
"Laffer: Current Health Care Proposals Increase Costs, Medical Price Inflation, and Leave 30 Million Uninsured"

http://www.lafferhealthcarereport.org/
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 08:53 pm
@okie,
okie, That really is a laffer; it'll affect your family and friends too! Health insurance premiums are increasing faster than inflation, while more Americans will lose their jobs and health insurance. That really is a knee slapper if I ever saw one!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 10:57 am
Damage control in high gear, but note the quote from the article:

"White House: U.S. Has Avoided Depression"

"But new figures to be released Friday will likely show a rising unemployment rate, possibly to more than 10 percent."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/05/factory-orders-rise-unexpectedly-june/

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:11 am
@okie,
okie, Everybody already knows that the unemployment rates are going to continue in increasing numbers from what the world has already lost.

Trying to create a negative message about Obama from what GW Bush created around the world's recession shows you're unable to see the real world. There isn't going to be any miracles from Obama or your god in stopping the bleeding in jobs that started with Bush. What we are seeing is the improvement in many sectors of our economy that you seem unable to acknowledge or see, and continue on with your ignorant rants about what Obama hasn't done.

If the stock market is a true leading indicator of our economy, it seems most investors (SURPRISE: those also includes MACs-conservatives who believe our economy is turning around for the better) are getting back into buying stocks while you complain about everything Obama has been doing. Your ignorance is eternal~!

okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

If the stock market is a true leading indicator of our economy, it seems most investors (SURPRISE: those also includes MACs-conservatives who believe our economy is turning around for the better) are getting back into buying stocks while you complain about everything Obama has been doing. Your ignorance is eternal~!




So the stock market turnaround now is a leading indicator of what the economy is going to do, that is not consistent with your claim that the stock market plunges following Obama overcoming Clinton in the primaries, Obama winning the election, and Obama being inaugurated had nothing to do with future projections, right ci? Just a little bit of selective reasoning, ci.

I think this economy now pretty much belongs to Obama. You can forget Bush for a while. And remember, Obama claimed the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8%.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2009 11:28 am
@okie,
Another one of your fantasies that Obama owns the economy after seven months in office - arriving at conclusions by the master of ignorance, okie.

 

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