114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 04:36 pm
@maporsche,
No the phenomenon has nothing to do with liberal. It's just Thomas being 'liberal' that sometimes gets in the way of seeing it as say I would see it. Smile

Thomas asked me what evidence I had for my opinion and I gave it. I didn't suggest that it was anything other than anecdotal, but even anecdotal evidence is evidence so far as it goes. But show me where food prices are lower in our area if you think I'm wrong. Show me how the fuel prices aren't going up here week by week if you think they aren't. Show me how our electric, gas, and water bills are lower if you think that happened. Show me the reduction in my insurance premiums that I'm not seeing on the accounts payable ledger. Tell me why gold price continue to rise and are projected to rise more?

I know you have expressed that you have a housing problem. We don't because even after the bubble burst, our house is still worth considerably more than our mortgage. But I don't see the reduction in the value of my house as any kind of offset in the cost of beans at the grocery store because it isn't. It cost me rather than helping me out. And the reduction in business activity and income also helps smooth out the inflation percentage but it sure doesn't do anything to increase my incentive to consume more. And we are scaling back to buying more economically rather than exchanging hamburger for ribeyes.

Are you paying less for basic necessities at your house this year?

maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 08:10 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Are you paying less for basic necessities at your house this year?


I honestly have not noticed an increase or a decrease in the basics. Apples still seam to be $1-2/lb. I can still get a lb of bananas for $0.69. Chicken breast still seems about the same price. PB&J costs haven't gone up (well mine have, but I'm buying better bread, natural PB, and healthier jam). Tea seems to be priced about the same. Fresh berries seem to have gone up in price, but frozen seems to be about the same price.


My utilities were actually cheaper this year than last, but that's probably due to weather or our usage changing.

Gas goes up and down, but so does my usage based on price.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 09:55 pm
I think social security entitlement raises are based upon the consumer price index. This index is calculated by tracking the cost of numerous goods and services in many different categories, but obviously the calculation is not without alot of interpretation in terms of weighting various items and services into the final result. Regional variations exist, and regional variations are not constant through time. Also, some things like investments, are not included. The way the index is calculated has been tweaked from time to time, and some economists disagree about whether it is done accurately, or whether it accurately reflects the true rate of inflation, some think it reflects a lower number than the actual.

Of course, it would be to the government's advantage to tweak the system to slightly depress the cpi, in regards to social security entitlement spending. And it would be disastrous if the cpi was overstated, as it would obviously grow the entitlements faster than the economy was growing. There are probably many things going on with this calculation that the public is totally unaware of that may affect them in greater ways than they even could imagine.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm#Question_20
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 10:44 pm
Quote:
By Kendra Marr
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 9, 2009

Auto parts suppliers are planning to ask the Obama administration for an additional $8 billion to $10 billion in federal aid.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/08/AR2009060803943.html?hpid=topnews

we are gettin near $100 billion sunk trying to "SAVE" the auto industry and their financing arms.....fun times....
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 10:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
They shouldn't have started...........

Why Obama followed Bush's lead on the bailout of the auto companies is a mystery; he should have known that in this economic climate, all car sales are down - even Toyota and Honda, the leaders of the pack have lost sales volume, and it's not going to recover any time soon.

It would have been much cheaper to start a new auto company when sales begin to recovery.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 10:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It would have been much cheaper to start a new auto company when sales begin to recovery


No ****, there would be even more factories in almost turn-key shape, and skilled and motivated ( by lack of money) ex autoworkers ready to go than there are already.

Who knows though, the Supremes still have one shot to derail Obama's ramrod auto restructuring. If they delay Chrysler Fiat will pull out, Chrysler will be liquidated and all of the plans for GM will be out the window.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 09:50 am
"The Media Fall for Phony 'Jobs' Claims The Obama Numbers Are Pure Fiction.

Mr. Fratto was a colleague of mine in the Bush administration, and as a senior member of the White House communications shop, he knows just how difficult it can be to deal with a press corps skeptical about presidential economic claims. It now appears, however, that Mr. Fratto's problem was that he simply lacked the magic words -- jobs "saved or created."

"Saved or created" has become the signature phrase for Barack Obama as he describes what his stimulus is doing for American jobs. His latest invocation came yesterday, when the president declared that the stimulus had already saved or created at least 150,000 American jobs -- and announced he was ramping up some of the stimulus spending so he could "save or create" an additional 600,000 jobs this summer. These numbers come in the context of an earlier Obama promise that his recovery plan will "save or create three to four million jobs over the next two years.""


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451592762396883.html

Can we not all agree that "saving jobs" is merely an accounting trick concocted in Obama's mind merely as another tool to fool the suckers out here, nothing more?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 10:31 am
@okie,
By the way, this "saving jobs" trick used by Obama is but one of many things I have looked at that have compelled me to conclude Obama is a total fraud. After all, he isn't dumb, and he would know this for what it is, a trick to fool the dummies out here, and it is apparently working. I do not believe any honest politician or administration would concoct such a convoluted calculation that is so bogus. But maybe he is that dumb and actually believes in such figures? Maybe but I doubt it.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 10:41 am
@okie,
That is what is called the big lie. Say something often enough and people will believe it. Regardless of the truth which is staring them in the face.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 12:41 pm
@au1929,
Actually, I kind of like Obama's accounting in one respect. After all, we could all feel like millionaires, we are millionaires, because I have "saved" millions in my life, and almost everyone has saved millions, certainly tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, even the homeless are very wealthy, they just don't know it yet. Never mind my bank account just doesn't show it, but its there, it has to be, using Obama's new accounting methods.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 12:53 pm
@okie,
Actually, my wife has almost broke us by "saving" money on bargains. We have saved so much money, I think we are multi-millionaires at least, probably billionaires. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 01:08 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Actually, I kind of like Obama's accounting in one respect. After all, we could all feel like millionaires, we are millionaires, because I have "saved" millions in my life, and almost everyone has saved millions, certainly tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, even the homeless are very wealthy, they just don't know it yet. Never mind my bank account just doesn't show it, but its there, it has to be, using Obama's new accounting methods.


But gee you have to admit that it is a unique concept. The fact that we have lost 1.6 million jobs since the stimulus package was signed into law, yet he continues to claim that his policies have saved jobs, should be instructive to us in how this is done. I saved a million bucks by not buying a Cessna this week, another two million by passing up a mansion that went on the auction block here yesterday, and the good Lord only knows how much I have saved in all the other stuff that I haven't bought. Using Obama accounting, all this austerity has increased the amount of money in my bank account. Who knew it could be that easy?
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 01:28 pm
I am going to give the President props for his recent admonition to Congress to rein in spending until they have the money. I would feel even better if he had provided some assurance that they wouldn't print or borrow money so Congress can spend whatever it wants to spend. And in fairness to President Obama, he hasn't yet spent more than a pretty small fraction of the stimulus package, though I daresay we don't know what the $50+ billion that has been spent purchased for us.

But maybe, just maybe, our President does love his country enough and takes his oath of office seriously enough that he will do more of the right thing than the wrong thing.

I think this cartoon, though funny, isn't entirely fair, at least yet:

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk0610d20090610040708.jpg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 01:31 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxie wrote:
Quote:
But gee you have to admit that it is a unique concept. The fact that we have lost 1.6 million jobs since the stimulus package was signed into law, yet he continues to claim that his policies have saved jobs, should be instructive to us in how this is done.


Don't you have anything intelligent to say? The stimulus plan can't turn-around the thousands of jobs lost every day - since Bush's tenure.

The economic crisis started with Bush, and it's still on-going because there is no magic wand that can turn-around the US and world economy on a dime.

Obama has repeated often how long this recovery will take; listen and learn some things factual once in awhile.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 01:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
But you havent explained how he has "saved" jobs.
He has made that claim, and if we are still losing jobs, how can he honestly claim he "saved" any?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 01:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There are two ways of turning a car round ci. There's the three point turn, five or seven for ladies, and there's the one you see done in car chases by stunt men.

There are two ways of removing a sticking plaster from a wound. Politicians know which way the public prefers. A lot of little "ouches" and no screeching.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 01:43 pm
@mysteryman,
mm, You're also ignoring what Obama said - often.
Read the following article and memorize it, because after all the news on Obama's stimulus plan, you're still uninformed.

Quote:

Obama says stimulus plan can save jobs
Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:34pm EST


By Deborah Charles

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama said on Saturday an analysis of his stimulus proposals showed that up to 4 million U.S. jobs could be saved or created by 2010, nearly 90 percent of them in the private sector.

Obama said previously his estimated $800 billion plan to lift the country out of a yearlong recession would create or save 3 million jobs, but the new analysis showed that number would range between 3 million and 4 million.

"The jobs we create will be in businesses large and small across a wide range of industries," Obama said on his weekly radio and Internet address. "And they'll be the kind of jobs that don't just put people to work in the short term, but position our economy to lead the world in the long-term."

The analysis was submitted by the head of Obama's council of economic advisers, Christina Romer, and Vice President-elect Joe Biden's chief economic adviser, Jared Bernstein.

It came just after official figures showed U.S. employers slashed more than half a million jobs in December, pushing the unemployment rate to 7.2 percent and bringing the number of jobs lost last year to 2.6 million -- the most since 1945.


Obama's top aides visited Capitol Hill on Friday to allay lawmakers' concerns about his proposal, which would combine tax cuts, aid to states and public works projects. He has faced opposition from Republican and Democratic lawmakers over the plan because of its high cost and proposed tax cuts.

Obama said his plan would create nearly 500,000 jobs by investing in clean energy, by committing to double the production of alternative energy in the next three years and by improving the energy efficiency of 2 million American homes.

"These made-in-America jobs building solar panels and wind turbines, developing fuel-efficient cars and new energy technologies pay well, and they can't be outsourced," he said.

Obama repeated his warning a recovery would not happen overnight and that the situation was likely to get worse before getting better.

In excerpts from an interview with ABC News to be broadcast on Sunday, Obama said it would also require personal sacrifice from Americans and scaling back other priorities.

"I want to be realistic here, not everything that we talked about during the campaign are we going to be able to do on the pace we had hoped," he said in a taped interview with ABC's "This Week with George Stephanopoulos."

"Everybody's going to have (to) give," Obama said.

REPAIRING INFRASTRUCTURE

Obama said the report showed the recovery plan would also put nearly 400,000 people back to work repairing infrastructure like crumbling roads, bridges and schools and laying down miles (km) of broadband lines.

"Finally, we won't just create jobs, we'll also provide help for those who've lost theirs, and for states and families who've been hardest-hit by this recession," he said.

"That means bipartisan extensions of unemployment insurance and health care coverage; a $1,000 tax cut for 95 percent of working families; and assistance to help states avoid harmful budget cuts in essential services like police, fire, education and health care."

Obama has not put a price tag on his American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan, but in the report his advisers said they were using a figure of "just slightly over the $775 billion currently under discussion."

Mitch McConnell, the Republican minority leader in the U.S. Senate, said he wanted to make sure the massive proposal actually created jobs.

"We want to make sure it's not just a trillion-dollar spending bill, but something that actually can reach the goal that he has suggested," McConnell said on Saturday.

Although Obama did not mention it in his radio address, the report suggested that tax cuts, especially temporary ones, and fiscal relief to the states were likely to create fewer jobs than direct increases in government purchases.

(Additional reporting by Susan Heavey; Editing by Peter Cooney)
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 01:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So, since the unemployment rate is up over 9% right now, when is he going to start "saving" jobs?

Also, how does the govt prove that they "saved" a job"
And why is unemployment higher now then what the Obama admin said it would be WITHOUT the stimulus plan?

Where did those jobs go?

Also, look at the date on the article you posted.
Its from JANUARY, 5 months ago.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 02:48 pm
@mysteryman,
Ask Obama.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 03:08 pm
What's a "job"?
0 Replies
 
 

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