114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 03:40 am
@cicerone imposter,
I only know of one person who consistantly posts articles in their full length, often two or more closely spaced tracts. I do not know of anyone who reads the stuff she posts.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 May, 2009 03:04 am
Mysteryman wrote to Cicerone Imposter:

So can we assume then that you have provided EVERY WORD of every article, op-ed piece, or any other link you have ever posted?

*********************************************************************

Of course not! Cicerone Imposter is miffed because he was shown to be wrong again. Of course, with his inadequate IQ he can not do better. He tries but usually embarrasses himself. I wonder if the concentration camp did that to him?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 09:17 am
Hopefully, folks will wake up to realize Obama's "stimulus package" is doing virtually nothing to stimulate the economy. Stagnation continues, retail sales drop. As unemployment continues to rise.

"Retail Sales Fall Unexpectedly in April
The Commerce Department says retail sales fell 0.4 percent last month, much worse than the flat reading economists expected. "


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/13/retail-sales-fall-unexpectedly-april/

http://www.economagic.com/gif/g97012101490184101512364124178844690.gif

http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/daychart.exe/form

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 09:24 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Hopefully, folks will wake up to realize Obama's "stimulus package" is doing virtually nothing to stimulate the economy. Stagnation continues, retail sales drop. As unemployment continues to rise.

"Retail Sales Fall Unexpectedly in April
The Commerce Department says retail sales fell 0.4 percent last month, much worse than the flat reading economists expected. "


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/13/retail-sales-fall-unexpectedly-april/

http://www.economagic.com/gif/g97012101490184101512364124178844690.gif

http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/daychart.exe/form




What would you do differently, and can you detail how that would cause consumer sales to rise from the levels they are at?

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 09:37 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclops, I have provided that answer many times before. It would not be increased government spending, coddling of unions and more illegal immigration, and increased regulation, such as cap and trade, etc. It would instead involve reforming taxes, such as reducing corporate taxation and other ways to encourage people to reap the rewards of their work and innovation. I would reward work and innovation, rather than punishing it.

Alot of this would take time, but business tax reform would help in the short term. Longer term solutions would involve many measures that would make us more competitive with other countries. Energy is a biggee. More drilling, more domestic production of all types, including aggressive development of nuclear, solar, and wind. Nuclear, we need to immediately solve the waste storage issue and get moving on it. The educational system needs major reform, by injecting competition into the system and busting the control of the teachers union, etc. The list gets long, Cyclops, but alot of this is exactly the opposite of what Obama is doing.

In short, we need practical solutions that work, not pie in the sky ones, example is Obama's energy plan, which does nothing, except promise to suppress and punish the industry, which destroys the industry, and the economy.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 09:47 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cyclops, I have provided that answer many times before. It would not be increased government spending, coddling of unions and more illegal immigration, and increased regulation, such as cap and trade, etc. It would instead involve reforming taxes, such as reducing corporate taxation and other ways to encourage people to reap the rewards of their work and innovation. I would reward work and innovation, rather than punishing it.


How will reducing corporate taxes cause consumer spending to rise at this time?

Quote:
Alot of this would take time,


Ah, I see. It wouldn't help. But you think it would in the future. On the other hand, you've decided that Obama's stimulus package does not take any time; it would have to work instantly if it was going to work. Can you not see the hypocrisy there? The things you talk about won't help any faster than what is being done.

Quote:
but business tax reform would help in the short term.


How? Specifically. How would business tax reforms help our current recession and credit crisis?

Quote:
Longer term solutions would involve many measures that would make us more competitive with other countries. Energy is a biggee. More drilling, more domestic production of all types, including aggressive development of nuclear, solar, and wind. Nuclear, we need to immediately solve the waste storage issue and get moving on it. The educational system needs major reform, by injecting competition into the system and busting the control of the teachers union, etc. The list gets long, Cyclops, but alot of this is exactly the opposite of what Obama is doing.


This has nothing to do with stimulating the economy, which is what we are talking about. But you'll be happy to know that Obama is doing a lot of work developing renewable energy.

Quote:
In short, we need practical solutions that work, not pie in the sky ones, example is Obama's energy plan, which does nothing, except promise to suppress and punish the industry, which destroys the industry, and the economy.


Your plan to cut business taxes is not a 'practical solution' to our current problem. It is a pie-in-the-sky solution. You can't detail how it would help end the recession, because it wouldn't, at all.

Forcing industries to operate cleanly does not destroy them, it forces them to innovate rather than sit on their heels. If someone had done that to Ford and GM 30 years ago, we wouldn't be where we are today.

It's amazing how much **** you have completely backwards. And how good you are at ignoring issues with your own plans.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 09:56 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Reducing corporate taxes would make them more competitive in the world market. Product and service prices drop while increasing in number, sales increase, profits rise, employment rises, and consumer spending rises. Pretty basic, cyclops. Read Sowell's Basic Economics book. Actually, you could learn some of the same principles by studying Sam Walton's philosophy. It is not complicated. Do not make it complicated.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 10:47 am
@Cycloptichorn,
No matter how much evidence is provided that corporate taxes alone is not the problem of our economy will convince people like okie who doesn't understand economics to grasp. He still has not provided "real" solutions to what ails our economy - of hundreds of thousands of jobs lost every week. okie is full of BS with his "tax cut rhetoric" to improve our economy. Bush promised more jobs with his tax cuts, and he ended up creating this recession, because he also doesn't understand economics.

okie's parroting the same message over and over just gets tiresome and boring.

BTW, I'm responding to Cyclo's post, because I've put okie on Ignore.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 11:08 am

'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'

Thomas Jefferson 1802
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 11:25 am
The experts said all along that things will get worse before they get better. Hell, O has been in office only a few months.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 12:28 pm
@Advocate,
Conservatives want Obama to be our messiah; they want Obama to fix what took eight years for Bush to destroy. Talk about the absence of logic. In the fifth month in office ...
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 01:18 pm
@Advocate,
Promise not to say the same thing after three more years?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 01:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No matter how much evidence is provided that corporate taxes alone is not the problem of our economy will convince people like okie who doesn't understand economics to grasp. He still has not provided "real" solutions to what ails our economy - of hundreds of thousands of jobs lost every week. okie is full of BS with his "tax cut rhetoric" to improve our economy. Bush promised more jobs with his tax cuts, and he ended up creating this recession, because he also doesn't understand economics.

okie's parroting the same message over and over just gets tiresome and boring.

BTW, I'm responding to Cyclo's post, because I've put okie on Ignore.

Nobody ever said corporate taxes were the only problem, dunce. I mention taxes because it is one immediate thing the government can do that is relevant. Your posts are growing tiresome to irrelevant. I hope you keep me on "ignore" I thumbs down most of yours.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 03:24 pm
I wonder how well this will help the economy...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/05/20somethings_could_stay_on_par.html

Quote:
By an overwhelming majority, the Pennsylvania House voted today to send Gov. Ed Rendell a bill that would require insurance companies, if their group and individual customers want to buy it, to extend coverage for children that have aged out of existing family plans.

The bill passed the state Senate in March, and Rendell is expected to sign it.

The goal is to get health care coverage to students or other young adults who are not married, don't have children and do not have any other insurance. Those folks could qualify to stay on their parents' policy through age 29.

The extension of coverage is not free.

Additional premiums for the benefit, most believe, will fall to the families that choose to extend coverage and could run to hundreds of dollars a month. For that reason, most sources believe the new bill will ultimately help only about 15,000 people find coverage.

Still, supporters hailed this break as a significant one.
"We're not going to solve the uninsured problem with one magic bullet piece of legislation," said Sen. Jake Corman, R-Centre, and the bill's prime sponsor. "But this is a piece of the puzzle."

roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 04:24 pm
@mysteryman,
Probably insignificant in a purely economic sense. Just one more instance of government altering private agreements, and we've seen enough of this that I begin to wonder why anyone would want to go into business.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 08:11 pm
@roger,
To make money? (Surely, not to lose money.)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 11:16 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I wonder how well this will help the economy...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/05/20somethings_could_stay_on_par.html

Quote:
By an overwhelming majority, the Pennsylvania House voted today to send Gov. Ed Rendell a bill that would require insurance companies, if their group and individual customers want to buy it, to extend coverage for children that have aged out of existing family plans.

The bill passed the state Senate in March, and Rendell is expected to sign it.

The goal is to get health care coverage to students or other young adults who are not married, don't have children and do not have any other insurance. Those folks could qualify to stay on their parents' policy through age 29.

The extension of coverage is not free.

Additional premiums for the benefit, most believe, will fall to the families that choose to extend coverage and could run to hundreds of dollars a month. For that reason, most sources believe the new bill will ultimately help only about 15,000 people find coverage.

Still, supporters hailed this break as a significant one.
"We're not going to solve the uninsured problem with one magic bullet piece of legislation," said Sen. Jake Corman, R-Centre, and the bill's prime sponsor. "But this is a piece of the puzzle."




roger wrote:
Probably insignificant in a purely economic sense. Just one more instance of government altering private agreements, and we've seen enough of this that I begin to wonder why anyone would want to go into business.


cicerone imposter wrote:
To make money? (Surely, not to lose money.)

To all folks on this forum, does this exchange, capped by the great cicerone imposter's last comment, illustrate a very significant problem here?
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 11:43 pm
@okie,
Okie- Cicerone is clearly one of the most misinformed and illogical posters on these threads. He surely either took no Economics Classes or was asleep in the classes. It is certain that he has never read any Economics texts.

He apparently does not realize that Corporations do not exist for charitable purposes. He has never learned that most Corporations react to rising taxes by raising thier prices. If, a Corporations' product is a necessity( gasoline) the Corporation will respond to the Obamian levies by price hikes.

The left wing boobs, the inner city punks, the illegal immigrants, the doctrinaire Socialists do not know this. They cheer when BO excoriates Corporations in his populist speeches.

Note Wall Street Journal--May 6, 2000.

REVIEW & OUTLOOK MAY 7, 2009 Obama's Global Tax Raid
President Obama revealed Monday that he's half a supply-sider. If only someone could explain to him the other half. We have a tax code, the President said, "that says you should pay lower taxes if you create a job in Bangalore, India, than if you create one in Buffalo, New York." That sounds like a great argument for lowering taxes on the guy creating jobs in Buffalo. Alas, that's not what he has in mind.


AP
Set aside that India is a poor example to make Mr. Obama's point, since its corporate tax rate on foreign-owned companies can be as high as 55%. The President's argument is that U.S. tax-deferral rules make it more expensive for American companies to reinvest overseas profits at home than abroad. This, he claims, creates a perverse incentive for companies to "ship jobs overseas" and reduces investment and job creation in the U.S.

He's right, except that his proposals would only compound the problem. His plan would limit the tax deferral on income earned abroad by tightening the rules, limiting allowable deductions and restricting eligibility for foreign-tax credits. This "solution" is antigrowth, job-destroying, protectionist and unlikely to raise the tax revenue Mr. Obama predicts. Other than that . . .

The current tax-deferral system is a clumsy attempt to deal with the fact that most other countries don't tax their companies' overseas profits. A German firm doing business in Ireland, say, pays no German income tax on its Irish profits, but it does pay Ireland's corporate income tax at its 12.5% rate. The U.S. company competing with that German business in Ireland, by contrast, pays Ireland the same 12.5% on its profits -- and it then pays Uncle Sam up to 35%, minus a credit for what it paid the Irish. And because almost everyone else's corporate tax rates are lower than America's (see nearby table), U.S. companies end up paying higher taxes than their international competitors.

Congress long ago created the corporate tax deferral to compensate for this competitive disadvantage. Under deferral, a company doesn't have to pay the U.S. corporate rate until it repatriates its earnings. It can retain them overseas or reinvest them abroad with no penalty. But if it brings them home or pays them as dividends, the tax bill comes due.

The German company faces no such quandary. It pays the Irish tax, and it's free to invest that money in Ireland or Germany or anywhere else. This territorial tax system, embraced by most of the world, eliminates the perverse incentive to hold money abroad that America's deferral system creates. Adopting a territorial system would be the most obvious and simplest way to eliminate the distortion that tax deferral creates. Alternatively, Mr. Obama could lower the U.S. corporate tax rate to a level that is internationally competitive.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 11:55 pm
@genoves,
Its sad that even the red Chinese, or the former commies of the Soviet Union actually understand how markets work, better than the ivy league educated Barack Obama and his mostly academics that serve as his economic advisors. Thus, the former beacon of free markets of the world, the United States of America, seems destined to make the same old worn out mistakes that other socialist and communist leaning countries have made already.

I guess the Democrats want us to live like Europeans, living in a tiny flat in a congested city, to ride a smelly subway to work every day. Doesn't seem all that great of a progress to me.
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 12:15 am
@okie,
Your description is apt, Okie.

BO is a Socialist. Anyone who investigates his background knows

l. One of his cheif mentors when Obama was in high school was a card carrying Communist.

2. Obama worked as a community organizer in Chicago. When he began his work his supervisors were disciples of the notorious left winger- Saul Alinsky.

3. His close relationship with Bill Ayres, one of the Weatherman bombers, shows that BO is really determined to change the US into a Socialistic haven like France.
0 Replies
 
 

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