Where is the US economy headed?

@cicerone imposter,

Palin was probably a mistake, but do not kid yourself, any vp that McCain would have picked would have been butchered and quartered. Plane loads of reporters and investigators descended upon Wasilla, Alaska, and one would wonder about Biden, with family members involved in corruption, the same thing on the Republican side would have been headlines day after day. Clearly a double standard. If the pick had been Romney, we would have endured dozens of stories about the strange, weird, corrupt, and bigoted policies of the Mormon Church. Meanwhile, the rev. Wright was totally ignored by the mainstream media, or if not ignored, minimized and downplayed. And the same corruption in Chicago, if the Repub. was from there, would have been investigated with a fine tooth comb. Meanwhile, Obama skates.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

Meanwhile, the rev. Wright was totally ignored by the mainstream media, or if not ignored, minimized and downplayed.

Oh, please, the media wouldn't shut up about him for weeks!

Pull the other one, Okie

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

okie's still in love with Rev Wright.

0 Replies

@okie,

okie wrote :

Quote:

Re: okie (Post 3595965)
Just a thought, maybe Buffet is feeling left out, he would like to have a say in policy, rather than leave it all up to George Soros? Rich guys can be jealous too.
Even after they have more than they ever need, it is never enough.
They want to have some say for their money.

when you write : "Even after they have more than they ever need, it is never enough. "
do you mean by that the rich should agree that they indeed "have enough" money and possessions at a certain point ; namely , that it might sometimes be "excessive " ? ?

or is that an incorrect interpretation of what you wrote ?

should there perhaps never be a restriction of any kind on the accumulation of money and other possessions for anyone ?
hbg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you may be interested in the exchange of thoughts foxfire and i had about "the very rich" (as i called them) and capitalism in general under the topic of "AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IN 2008 AND BEYOND " :

Quote:

Re: hamburger(Post 3594420)

foxfire wrote :

The fact remains that under a capitalistic free society, it is those very rich who take the risks .

Quote:

hbg wrote :
you might remember that far more "ordinary" people take far greater risks .
they take dangerous jobs in mines , on oil rigs , working as lumberjacks , pumping gas ... you name it . they often leave their families behind to do those jobs in remote areas . what happens to them when the lumbermill closes down (just as ONE example) : they lose their job and may have little chance of finding another one for quite some time .

foxfire responded :

I don't diminish the very valuable benefit to society when people are willing to do dangerous jobs.

But by risk in this context, I mean it is only the rich who risk their property in R&D, new ventures, expansion of existing businesses, taking on new product lines, etc.
The poor have far less ability to do that, but it is the fact that the rich do that provides jobs for the poor. The old saw may be tired, but it's still true: no poor man ever offered me a job.

Quote:
hbg wrote :
what happens to the "very rich" in similar circumstances ? very few - if any - have invested all their money in a single enterprise that goes completely belly-up and makes them lose their house . even if they lose 90% of their wealth , they still have much more than the "ordinary" people ever dared dream of . they can still go on living a comfortable life .
i don't know of any "very rich" that have lost all and living in poverty .

foxfire responded :
But why should the fact that the rich can lose much and still have something left make a difference? Why is that so offensive to some people?
Or when did it become undesirable to achieve great success?
This sense of entitlement to what other people have lawfully and ethically acquired and/or class envy just blows my mind. I was not raised to think that I was entitled to anything that I did not work for and earn. Gifts and blessings and unexpected good luck were always appreciated, but I never assumed that these were a right.

my emphasis added .

see post : http://able2know.org/topic/113196-256#post-3594437

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

okie :
when you re-read your comments and read what foxfire thinks about the very rich , namely : "they risk their property " , do you still believe there is anything wrong with the very rich when you state :

"Even after they have more than they ever need, it is never enough "

a/t foxfire "they risk their property " , so how could it ever be enough or even be too much - since the rich and very rich are he ones taking the risks ?

i would certainly be interested in your comments on this .
take care !
hbg

2 Replies

Dow up 5.76%. S&P up 7.07%
Insane.

2 Replies

@realjohnboy,

rjb wrote :

Quote:

Dow up 5.76%. S&P up 7.07%
Insane.

couldn't be a "dead cat bounce" , could it ?
i better start being a bit more optimistic , after all my pension is invested somewhere in the market , and i have a few bucks of my own in the market too .
MUST SHOW MORE OPTIMISM !!! Cool

hbg

0 Replies

@realjohnboy,

rjb, It's a bounce like a yo-yo; what goes up will certainly come down. We're still not over with all the bad news coming out about a) bank's assets/equity, b) layoffs, c) housing market, d) world economy, e) availability of credit, and f) effects of Obama's stimulus plan (when and how?).

I'd give it another two-three years before our stock market settles down.

hbg, All of our retirement savings are in funds and bonds with Vanguard, except for the cash we have in our bank accounts. We also want to see some improvement in the stock market, but that will not be forthcoming until the job market is stabilized. When that will occur is anybody's guess. Any recovery in jobs will be slow-going for about four or five years, because we've already lost over four million jobs with this recession.

That's my .02c worth.

0 Replies

@hamburger,

Quote:

Soros? Rich guys can be jealous too.
Even after they have more than they ever need, it is never enough.

You need to understand that, after a point, its just a game and money is the scorecard, thats all.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman :
i was trying to entice okie (or firefox) to respond to some of their own musings about capitalism since they often sing from the same songbook - i think i'll be better off having a good night's sleep - or play wordgames with duchy !
hbg

0 Replies

Dow +379.44 +5.80% 6,926.49

World Markets

ADRs FTSE DAX CAC Currencies World Biz Headlines
Asia Pacific & Australia
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Australia ASX 100 +56.00 +2.13% 2,690.70 3/11 10:56am
Australia ASX All Ords +60.40 +1.92% 3,203.60 3/11 10:55am
Australia ASX Mid-cap 50 +44.20 +1.61% 2,783.60 3/11 10:56am
Hong Kong Hang Seng +349.47 +3.08% 11,694.05 3/10 12:00am
Hong Kong HSCC Red Chip +57.31 +2.08% 2,812.74 3/10 4:50pm
Japan Nikkei 225 -31.05 -0.44% 7,054.98 3/10 12:00am
Europe
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Belgium Bel 20 +63.46 +4.09% 1,616.51 3/10 6:08pm
Europe DJ Stoxx +87.78 +5.44% 1,702.53 3/10 7:00pm
Europe Euronext 100 +22.29 +5.13% 456.90 3/10 6:08pm
Europe Euronext 150 +27.33 +3.42% 825.45 3/10 6:08pm
France CAC +144.39 +5.73% 2,663.68 3/10 6:13pm
France SBF 80 +110.83 +3.86% 2,980.70 3/10 6:13pm
France SBF 120 +100.03 +5.49% 1,923.11 3/10 6:13pm
Germany DAX +194.95 +5.28% 3,886.98 3/10 6:31pm
Germany MDAX +232.46 +5.58% 4,395.88 3/10 6:31pm
Germany TECDAX +20.26 +4.95% 429.58 3/10 6:31pm
Netherlands AEX +11.19 +5.62% 210.44 3/10 6:08pm
Norway BRIX 0.00 0.00% 3,954.43 11/20 12:00am
Norway OSE Industry +8.08 +0.48% 153.83 3/10 5:28pm
Sweden OMX +35.06 +5.69% 650.61 3/10 5:44pm
Sweden OMSX All Share +1.50 +0.80% 188.13 3/9 12:00am
UK FTSE 100 +172.83 +4.88% 3,715.23 3/10 4:35pm
UK FTSE All Shares +82.95 +4.63% 1,874.62 3/10 4:47pm
UK FTSE Eurotop +72.04 +5.10% 1,483.69 3/10 4:45pm
UK FTSE Techmark +32.82 +2.89% 1,167.84 3/10 4:36pm
Americas
Index Change %Change Level Last Update *
Canada TSE 300 +313.47 +4.14% 7,880.41 3/10 5:05pm
Canada CDNX +4.36 +0.54% 818.55 3/10 5:05pm
Canada S&P/TSX 60 +20.96 +4.57% 479.65 3/10 5:05pm

1 Reply

@Lightwizard,

LW, Do you interpret that in any way?

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

No, I offered it up as evidence that it's a world-wide surge in the markets. Whether it will hold on and gradually rise is, of course, another matter. I think when you're knocked down, the response for those even have the simplest human psychology is to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start all over again. (Musical accompaniment to be imagined, from "Swing Time," Fred Astaire and Ginger Rodgers in their best movie).

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

It might be shorters having to buy to cover their bear positions on pay day.

I hope it is confidence returning but I'm not going long on it.

0 Replies

@hamburger,

Personally, I never wanted to be rich, I only wanted to earn an honest living, and to be reasonably comfortable, but not rich, as I personally believe that wealth is not necessarily a good thing for my own well being. However, I do not believe that I should dictate to anyone else whether I think they are too rich or not, after all, is it any of my business? And why do you think it is your business, hamburger?

One thing is fairly certain in my view, rich people provide alot more jobs than poor people do, and if there were no wealthy people in this country, things would be in a much sadder state of affairs than they are now, economically. So, I am grateful to rich people, the ones that own businesses, that are investing, that are providing jobs and the capital for new innovation and technical progress. I find the jealous and envious of other people's wealth to be a self defeating and pathetic mindset, if you want to know the truth, hamburger.

In regard to poor people risking their necks on various jobs, sure, no doubt, I have done it myself. The wealth of a rich person does not make that person a better person, no it does not, but if that wealth is invested and given for charitable purposes, there is no doubt that it accomplishes more for the overall economy than one man sweeping the floor as a janitor. Does it make the rich person better than the janitor, no, all men are equal before God. And if you want a biblical example, inasmuch as the poor widow cast in one mite, she has given more than the rich, because it cost her more.

The thing that I object to is the demonization of wealth, and the idea that the government somehow has a duty to regulate wealth, and that it somehow has the right to confiscate one man's wealth and give it to others. I am accepting of some progressivity in the tax system, but not to the point of taking away all the incentive of work and of taking risks, financially, to produce growth and technological progress. About the only thing government will do is spend and waste the wealth, to the point of running a society into poverty. A vibrant rich and middle class is essential to this country, in my opinion, and I object to the government taking all of that wealth, in the name of doling it out to the poor, which accomplishes nothing, except making everyone poor.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
Meanwhile, the rev. Wright was totally ignored by the mainstream media, or if not ignored, minimized and downplayed.

Oh, please, the media wouldn't shut up about him for weeks!

Pull the other one, Okie

Cycloptichorn

I said mainstream media, cyclops. Conservative talk radio pounded away daily on Wright, Ayers, and company, but large portions of voters never heard of them, because they were largely ignored and played down on other so-called news outlets, etc. And probably alot of voters simply are very very uninformed. If Hannity's "man on the street" segment is a good indicator, alot of Obama voters can't even name the vice president by name.

0 Replies

"Obama, Geithner Receive Failing Grades From Economists in Survey
In stark contrast with Obama's popularity with the public, a majority of the 49 economists polled by the Wall Street Journal are dissatisfied with the administration's economic policies. "

Geithner gets the lowest grades.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/11/obama-geithner-receive-failing-grades-latest-survey/

0 Replies

More news on Obama's "ethical" administration:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/05/big-donors-dominate-obama-advisory-board/

EXCLUSIVE: Big donors dominate Obama panel

"President Obama's newly named Economic Recovery Advisory Board, the real-world Americans being asked to help solve the nation's financial crisis, includes a union executive who took the Fifth in a federal probe, a billionaire whose failed bank pioneered the subprime mortgage market, and deep-pocket donors who gave or gathered nearly $1.2 million for the president's campaign.

In all, 11 of the 16 board members donated or raised money for Democrats in the last election, according to a Washington Times review of campaign finance records. They include the president and chief operating officer of the American arm of UBS Investment Bank, the Swiss-based bank now at the center of a widening tax evasion probe by the Justice Department and the Internal Revenue Service.

In announcing the board's creation, Mr. Obama described its members as "distinguished citizens outside the government" who were qualified on the basis of achievement, experience, independence and integrity to "bring a diverse set of perspectives and voices from different parts of the country and different sectors of the economy to bear in the formulation and evaluation of economic policy."

The board is headed by former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, whose only political contribution last year was $2,300 to Mr. Obama.

"It is distressing to see the president turning to his heavy finance hitters as consultants," said Craig Holman, legislative director for Public Citizen, a nonpartisan watchdog group that tracks political fundraising and its influence on government policy. "

1 Reply

@okie,

unfortunately joe the plumber is not available.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

He'd only screw up the plumbing so water squirted out of the burners on your range and gas comes out of the faucet.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Large majorities of Americans support U.S. President Barack Obama's plans to revive the economy and his efforts to work across party lines, according to a pair of public opinion polls released on Monday.

One month into his presidency, a Washington Post-ABC News poll found 68 percent of Americans approve of Obama's job performance.

Sixty-four percent of respondents supported the administration's $787 billion economic stimulus package and the same percentage backed his proposal to prevent housing foreclosures, the Washington Post reported.

According to a New York Times/CBS News poll, Obama has a 63 percent job approval rating and more than 75 percent of Americans are optimistic about the next four years with him as president.

1 Reply

@Lightwizard,

Maybe the past few days of market performance is related to the public's confidence in Obama.

okie thinks Obama is a loser. LOL

1 Reply

Where is the US economy headed?

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