Where is the US economy headed?

The employer hands the employee a W4 at or near the beginning of each year. It includes detailed instructions on how many exemptions to claim based on the size of family, anticipated credits/deductions etc. Those who don't want to risk owing taxes at the end of the year claim 1 or 2 or maybe no exemptions. Those who want the money in their pocket now can claim all they are entitled to and thereby increase their take home pay.

The employer uses government supplied tax tables to calculate income tax to be withheld from the employee's earnings each pay day and this amount changes based on the number of exemptions claimed. Claim too many exemptions up front, and you can wind up paying some penalty or interest if you owe too much in taxes at the end of the year.

But people earning under a certain level pay NO TAXES either due to the number of exemptions claimed or they are not subject to taxes no matter what they claim on their W-4

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

People earning under a certain level pay NO TAXES regardless of what they claim on their W-4.

You're right, but Cyclops was using the false argument that these people still have taxes taken out of their paycheck so it's OK that they are getting a tax break.

I was merely pointing out that it's their CHOICE to pay taxes on every paycheck.

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@maporsche,

Yes. There for awhile my income was so erratic, I asked my employer to hold out extra just to make sure I didn't come up owing at the end of the year. And some do that as a matter of policy just as a way to save and then use their tax refund for something fun at the end of the year. It's a dumb way to do it because the government pays no interest on the overpayment, but its not terrible either.

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@maporsche,

And. As I am certain that you know, maporsche, Cyclops will not tell you that these people( when the Bush TAx Cuts were announced)organized by the far left( many of these non tax payers are illiterate) complained that they were not getting any money. These people did not understand that you can not get an income tax cut IF YOU DID NOT PAY ANY INCOME TAX. A cut of zero dollars is zero.

1 Reply

@okie,

The ever moronic Cicerone Imposter wrote:

okie, It's not tax cuts that'll save any business; that's why it's called a business; they must have demand (people with money). Without demand, they go broke with or without tax cuts.
*************************************************************
Cicerone Imposter thinks that Businesses are some mysterious abstraction. They are not. Ninety percent of the businesses in the USA are small businesses who employ several or a score or more of workers.

If those businesses are prospering, the hire, promote and RAISE SALARIES.
There is where the DEMAND comes from. If NO businesses are open except government agencies,THERE IS VERY LITTLE DEMAND.

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After reading the incredible garbage spouted by the far left winger, Cyclops, and the usual brainless pap put out by Cicerone Imposter, one would think that 2008 was the worst economy in our country's history. But the left wants to forget Jimmy Carter.

Note:
This is from the Carter years-Another bozo like Obama who thought he could save the country by putting pressure on businesses. Cicerone Imposter is playing around with credit card rates which mean almost nothing when compared to INFLATION AND UNEMPLOYMENT RATES. There is something called the Misery Index which I am sure that Cyclops and Cicerone Imposter either haven't seen or don't want to see-Note below:

[edit] U.S. misery index

[edit] Misery index - era by U.S president
Index = Unemployment rate + Inflation rate Rank President Time Period

INDEX AVERAGE LOW HIGH
5 Harry Truman 1948"1952 7.87 Dec 1952 = 3.45 Jan 1948 = 13.63
1 Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953"1960 6.26 Jul 1953 = 2.97 Apr 1958 = 10.98
3 John F. Kennedy 1961"1962 7.27 Jul 1962 = 6.40 Jul 1961 = 8.38
2 Lyndon B. Johnson 1963"1968 6.78 Nov 1965 = 5.70 Jul 1968 = 8.19
7 Richard Nixon 1969"1973 9.98 Jan 1968 = 7.80 Dec 1973 = 13.61
10 Gerald Ford 1974"1976 15.93 Dec 1976 = 12.66 Jan 1975 = 19.90
11 Jimmy Carter 1977"1980 16.27 Apr 1978 = 12.60 Jun 1980 = 21.98
9 Ronald Reagan 1981"1988 12.19 Dec 1986 = 7.70 Sep 1981 = 19.33
8 George H. W. Bush 1989"1992 10.68 Sep 1989 = 9.64 Nov 1990 = 12.47
4 Bill Clinton 1993"2000 7.80 Apr 1998 = 5.74 Jan 1993 = 10.56
6 George W. Bush 2001 - 2008 8.10 Oct 2006 = 5.71 Aug 2008 = 11.47

The highest was CARTER--the low of Carter was 12.60 and the high was an amazing 21.98.

In twoyears, we will have a combined Inflation-Unemployment Inflation Rate which will be HIGHER THAN CARTER'S PEAK.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

And you are correct that if they are under a certain level, there is no withholding for income tax of any kind. They WILL have social security taxes withhheld unless it is a one time payment of under $400 or that is the way it was up until recently anyway. But the government tells us those social security taxes go into an untouchable fund and are held in trust for us. That is a bald faced lie of course--the money is spent as soon as it hits the treasury--and Congress and the President could eliminate social security today if they wanted to and all of us would lose every nickle we had paid into it.

1 Reply

@genoves,

genoves wrote:

The highest was CARTER

Second highest: Gerald Ford
Third highest: Ronald Reagan
Fourth highest: George H. W. Bush
Fifth highest: Richard Nixon
Sixth highest: George W. Bush

Seems like most of the misery index leaders are Republican...

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

People earning under a certain level pay NO TAXES regardless of what they claim on their W-4.

You're right, but Cyclops was using the false argument that these people still have taxes taken out of their paycheck so it's OK that they are getting a tax break.

I was merely pointing out that it's their CHOICE to pay taxes on every paycheck.

It is not a false argument. The vast majority of workers pay taxes on a monthly basis. I'd even bet that the vast majority of those who end up with zero tax liability STILL pay taxes on a monthly basis.

And, for those workers who pay no payroll taxes - they get no payroll tax deduction, and therefore no stimulus. You can't get a deduction from nothing paid each month.

I do not consider this to be anything more than a quite minor and ancillary point to the larger topic however.

Cycloptichorn

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@Foxfyre,

Oh don't worry, this stimulus bill has un-officially ended ANY CHANCE that social security will be around after 10-15 years.

Obama just gave Republicans their biggest win.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Oh don't worry, this stimulus bill has un-officially ended ANY CHANCE that social security will be around after 10-15 years.

Obama just gave Republicans their biggest win.

Your amateur economic analysis is funny, I'll give you that.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@genoves,

Quote:

many of these non tax payers are illiterate

This was a totally uncalled for and unsupported comment, and it demeans your entire argument.

I am a conservative, and I try to have rational arguments with those I disagree with.
But when you post this kind of garbage, it ruins your credibility and affects those of us that might agree with some of your points.

You do yourself no favor when you post this kind of crap.

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@Cycloptichorn,

You may be laughing now......

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
many of these non tax payers are illiterate

This was a totally uncalled for and unsupported comment, and it demeans your entire argument.

I am a conservative, and I try to have rational arguments with those I disagree with.
But when you post this kind of garbage, it ruins your credibility and affects those of us that might agree with some of your points.

You do yourself no favor when you post this kind of crap.

genoves (better known on this forum as Possum R FartBubble) is a well known dickhead who has more identities than a Russian KGB agent. Anyone with a brain never attends to his posts.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

All right, Mysteryman. You challenged my statement. I will repeat--MANY OF THESE NON TAX PAYERS ARE ILLITERATE.

Note:

In the United States, according to Business magazine, an estimated 15 million functionally illiterate adults held jobs at the beginning of the 21st century. The American Council of Life Insurers reported that 75% of the Fortune 500 companies provide some level of remedial training for their workers. All over the U.S.A. 30 million (14% of adults) are unable to perform simple and everyday literacy activities. [1]

The National Center for Education Statistics provides more detail. Literacy is broken down into three parameters: prose, document, and quantitative literacy. Each parameter has four levels: below basic, basic, intermediate, and proficient. For prose literacy, for example, a below basic level of literacy means that a person can look at a short piece of text to get a small piece of uncomplicated information; while a person who is below basic in quantitative literacy would be able to do simple addition. In the US, 14% of the adult population is at the "below basic" level for prose literacy; 12% are at the "below basic" level for document literacy; and 22% are at that level for quantitative literacy. Only 13% of the population is proficient in these three areas"able to compare viewpoints in two editorials; interpret a table about blood pressure, age, and physical activity; or compute and compare the cost per ounce of food items.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

He's deluded himself into believing nobody knows who he is or where he came from, but you could roast a pigheaded conservative there and he'd not even reach rare, as he's so used to the heat and the company of his mentor, Bill Zebub.

This excludes any conservative who does not have a Sus scrofa domesticus noggin.

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1 Reply

MANY PEOPLE WHO DID NOT PAY INCOME TAX ARE ILLITERATE.

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@genoves,

Quote:

Now this means that there are 218,544,291 adults in the USA.

Since 14% of adults are functionally illiterate then the number of adults who are functionally illiterate are:

THIRTY MILLION, FIVE HUNDRED NINETY SIX THOUSAND,ONE HUNDRED NINETY FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE ADULTS IN THE USA.

30,596,190.

And how many of them are working?

Remember, you said...

Quote:

As I am certain that you know, maporsche, Cyclops will not tell you that these people( when the Bush TAx Cuts were announced)organized by the far left( many of these non tax payers are illiterate

So, if someone isnt working, they arent paying income tax, but they ARE paying other taxes.

1 Reply

@genoves,

genoves wrote:

The National Center for Education Statistics provides more detail. Only 13% of the population is proficient in these three areas"able to compare viewpoints in two editorials; interpret a table about blood pressure, age, and physical activity; or compute and compare the cost per ounce of food items.

Awesome. Only 13% of us are functional, The other 77% are illiterate fools by your reckoning.

2 Replies

Where is the US economy headed?

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