114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 02:55 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
History shows us the following truths.

Every tax cut in the past has resulted in increased Federal tax revenues.

Every past tax hike has resulted in reduced Federal tax revenues.
intersting mythology.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 03:54 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Under Obama, the government will be pay-as-you-go. It is amazing to hear someone give Bush credit for cutting taxes inasmuch this caused deficits to soar. Borrow and spend is what is causing the dollar to sink out of sight. There is no doubt that Obama and the Dems will eliminate the cuts for the super-rich, whose income and wealth has soared under Bush. Cutting some of the military spending would create surpluses.


Cutting spending in every dpet and eliminating the redundancy in govt would also creats surpluses.

Eliminating several depts and agencies that do nothing would also create surpluses, yet you single out the military.

Why is that?


What are those departments and agencies that do nothing, the elimination of which would produce surpluses? The military budget is more than bloated. We are spending more for the military than the next 26 countries combined spend for the military.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 04:36 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
History shows us the following truths.

Every tax cut in the past has resulted in increased Federal tax revenues.

Every past tax hike has resulted in reduced Federal tax revenues.

Funny stuff but it ain't "history"
Federal tax receipts increased every year from 1992-2000,
They dropped in 2001 and didn't get back to 2001 numbers until 2005.
What happened in Jan of 2001? Oh.. Bush took office. Tax receipts dropped in 2002 and then again in 2003 before starting to climb again and it was 2005 before they finally achieved the level they were in 2001.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy09/pdf/hist.pdf
Table 2.1

Year - Total Federal Receipts
1990 - 1,030,094.00
1991 - 1,055,093.00
1992 - 1,091,328.00
1993 - 1,154,471.00
1194 - 1,258,721.00
1995 - 1,351,952.00
1996 - 1,453,177.00
1997 - 1,579,423.00
1998 - 1,721,955.00
1999 - 1,827,645.00
2000 - 2,025,457.00
2001 - 1,991,426.00
2002 - 1,853,395.00
2003 - 1,782,532.00
2004 - 1,880,279.00
2005 - 2,153,859.00
2006 - 2,407,254.00
2007 - 2,568,239.00


So much for your "truths." Either you are wrong or Clinton lowered taxes and Bush raised taxes.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 04:36 pm
Advocate wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Under Obama, the government will be pay-as-you-go. It is amazing to hear someone give Bush credit for cutting taxes inasmuch this caused deficits to soar. Borrow and spend is what is causing the dollar to sink out of sight. There is no doubt that Obama and the Dems will eliminate the cuts for the super-rich, whose income and wealth has soared under Bush. Cutting some of the military spending would create surpluses.


Cutting spending in every dpet and eliminating the redundancy in govt would also creates surpluses.

Eliminating several depts and agencies that do nothing would also create surpluses, yet you single out the military.

Why is that?


What are those departments and agencies that do nothing, the elimination of which would produce surpluses? The military budget is more than bloated. We are spending more for the military than the next 26 countries combined spend for the military.


Lets see...
HUD,
the Dept of Education
Bureau of Indian Affairs
FEC
FCC
The Advisory Committee on student financial assistance
http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/acsfa/edlite-index.html

The US Access Board
http://www.access-board.gov/

The Benefits Review Board
http://www.dol.gov/brb/welcome.html

The list is endless of govt agencies that are useless or not needed or simply a waste of taxpayer money.
Of course, we can add the IRS to the list also.

And then we get rid of all of the govt bureaucrats whose only job is to tell each other how important they are.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 04:58 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Under Obama, the government will be pay-as-you-go. It is amazing to hear someone give Bush credit for cutting taxes inasmuch this caused deficits to soar. Borrow and spend is what is causing the dollar to sink out of sight. There is no doubt that Obama and the Dems will eliminate the cuts for the super-rich, whose income and wealth has soared under Bush. Cutting some of the military spending would create surpluses.


Cutting spending in every dpet and eliminating the redundancy in govt would also creats surpluses.

Eliminating several depts and agencies that do nothing would also create surpluses, yet you single out the military.

Why is that?

Easy to say MM, but hard to find those cuts..

Here is the majority of the Federal Budget, most of which you can't or probably wouldn't want to cut. The following makes up 80% of the Federal tax receipts and totals 1,989,780 with 2,568,239 in receipts


National Defense 552,568
Social Security 586,153
Veteran's benefits 69,842
Medicare 375,407
Interest on debt 237,109
Courts, Prisons, Justice 41,244
General govt, WH, congress 17,457
Federal Employee retirement 110,000
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 05:12 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Under Obama, the government will be pay-as-you-go. It is amazing to hear someone give Bush credit for cutting taxes inasmuch this caused deficits to soar. Borrow and spend is what is causing the dollar to sink out of sight. There is no doubt that Obama and the Dems will eliminate the cuts for the super-rich, whose income and wealth has soared under Bush. Cutting some of the military spending would create surpluses.


Cutting spending in every dpet and eliminating the redundancy in govt would also creates surpluses.

Eliminating several depts and agencies that do nothing would also create surpluses, yet you single out the military.

Why is that?


What are those departments and agencies that do nothing, the elimination of which would produce surpluses? The military budget is more than bloated. We are spending more for the military than the next 26 countries combined spend for the military.


Lets see...
HUD,
the Dept of Education
Bureau of Indian Affairs
FEC
FCC
The Advisory Committee on student financial assistance
http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/acsfa/edlite-index.html

The US Access Board
http://www.access-board.gov/

The Benefits Review Board
http://www.dol.gov/brb/welcome.html

The list is endless of govt agencies that are useless or not needed or simply a waste of taxpayer money.
Of course, we can add the IRS to the list also.

And then we get rid of all of the govt bureaucrats whose only job is to tell each other how important they are.

Education is 66,372
HUD is 45,461
BIA is about 17 based on grants to states (The entire department of Interior is 10,000.)

None of the other agencies you mention even get a line item in the budget so would be less than the BIA.

So far you have eliminated about 130,000 of the projected 410,047 deficit in the 2008 budget. What else you got?

By the way, the entire budget for Office of Personnel in the Fed govt is 58,000 so eliminating all those departments won't get you there at all.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 05:16 pm
Tax increases and spending cuts will be required. Means testing Social security, raising taxes rates as well as imposing new taxes , and cutting defense will all have to happen.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 06:00 pm
Cut defense spending by a third. Kick the DoD and pentagon in the ass and get rid of a ton of the dead weight.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 06:23 pm
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 06:43 pm
Congress hasn't done too good a job on the federal deficit front, and I'm not optimistic that will change any time soon.

If they can prepare a budget without digging into the social security trust fund, it would be a good start. They must also increase the FICA withholding, and increase the age of retirement.

One of the reasons that social security is running into trouble is the benefits extended to the handicapped and immigrants who have paid very little or nothing into the program. It's another government program where they continue to increase benefits without the necessary revenue to support the program. Also, people are living much longer now, and they must re-compute their annuity tables.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 08:58 pm
CI,
You made a challenge to ican on another thread,yet you seem to have ignored it now that I proved you wrong.

Why is that?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 11:49 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
Under Obama, the government will be pay-as-you-go. It is amazing to hear someone give Bush credit for cutting taxes inasmuch this caused deficits to soar. Borrow and spend is what is causing the dollar to sink out of sight. There is no doubt that Obama and the Dems will eliminate the cuts for the super-rich, whose income and wealth has soared under Bush. Cutting some of the military spending would create surpluses.


Cutting spending in every dpet and eliminating the redundancy in govt would also creates surpluses.

Eliminating several depts and agencies that do nothing would also create surpluses, yet you single out the military.

Why is that?


What are those departments and agencies that do nothing, the elimination of which would produce surpluses? The military budget is more than bloated. We are spending more for the military than the next 26 countries combined spend for the military.


Lets see...
HUD,
the Dept of Education
Bureau of Indian Affairs
FEC
FCC
The Advisory Committee on student financial assistance
http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/acsfa/edlite-index.html

The US Access Board
http://www.access-board.gov/

The Benefits Review Board
http://www.dol.gov/brb/welcome.html

The list is endless of govt agencies that are useless or not needed or simply a waste of taxpayer money.
Of course, we can add the IRS to the list also.

And then we get rid of all of the govt bureaucrats whose only job is to tell each other how important they are.

Compliments on your post, mm, I think it is one of the best I have ever read on this forum, especially the last line.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 11:57 pm
Some time ago, I was at a party where a man was slamming the bureaucrats. I cracked up when he said he worked for IBM.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 11:59 pm
Why did that crack you up?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 07:58 am
Because IBM is larger than most government agencies, and almost as bureaucratic. Moreover, the guy, a low-level manager with the firm, was hardly the entrepreneur he would lead us to believe he was.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 08:04 am
Here is a fine example of why we have a foreclosure mess... STUPID F'ING PEOPLE! Evil or Very Mad

'Extreme Home Makeover' House Threatened With Foreclosure

CLAYTON COUNTY, Ga. -- An Extreme Home Makeover may be going bust. The first metro family who got a new home is facing foreclosure.

Channel 2 followed the progress as an army of volunteers swarmed a Clayton County neighborhood to build a new home for a deserving family on "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" in 2005. When the show came to town, no one could have predicted what would happen less than four years later -- foreclosure.

A foreclosure notice appeared last Friday, a $450,000 second mortgage they took out less than 15 months ago was in default.

Patricia Harper, the homeowner, told Channel 2 she and her husband had struck a deal with Chase Home Finance to rescue their "extreme" home. Chase said they couldn't confirm that claim.

"I didn't really know what the circumstances were, I was kind of surprised. I was really surprised to read that," said neighbor Doris Rhodenizer.

Lake City mayor Willie Oswalt was among the 1,800 volunteers helping "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" build the Harper's new home 3 ½ years ago. Beazer Homes of Atlanta was the main sponsor. The mayor said he is baffled.

"Beazer gave them $100,000 cash, paid their mortgage off and they still can't make it," said Oswalt.

Harper told Channel 2 they invested the loan proceeds in a construction business and the business hasn't been good. She didn't say how much of the money is left.

"What's going to happen is instead of keep paying my mortgage, I'm going to take my money and not pay my mortgage because I'm being harassed," said Harper.

Atlanta law firm McCalla Raymer represents Chase. They wouldn't talk about it except to say federal law bars Chase from talking without Harper's permission. Harper said that if Channel 2 wanted proof the foreclosure is off, we should show up at the courthouse next month to watch it not happen.
_______________________________________________________

What idiots these people are!!! This is the reason stupid people shouldn't be given things. They make bad decisions that can effect everyone.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 09:21 am
mcg quoted :

Quote:
CLAYTON COUNTY, Ga. -- An Extreme Home Makeover may be going bust. The first metro family who got a new home is facing foreclosure.

Channel 2 followed the progress as an army of volunteers swarmed a Clayton County neighborhood to build a new home for a deserving family on "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" in 2005. When the show came to town, no one could have predicted what would happen less than four years later -- foreclosure.

A foreclosure notice appeared last Friday, a $450,000 second mortgage they took out less than 15 months ago was in default.

Patricia Harper, the homeowner, told Channel 2 she and her husband had struck a deal with Chase Home Finance to rescue their "extreme" home. Chase said they couldn't confirm that claim.

"I didn't really know what the circumstances were, I was kind of surprised. I was really surprised to read that," said neighbor Doris Rhodenizer.

Lake City mayor Willie Oswalt was among the 1,800 volunteers helping "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" build the Harper's new home 3 ½ years ago. Beazer Homes of Atlanta was the main sponsor. The mayor said he is baffled.

"Beazer gave them $100,000 cash, paid their mortgage off and they still can't make it," said Oswalt.

Harper told Channel 2 they invested the loan proceeds in a construction business and the business hasn't been good. She didn't say how much of the money is left.

"What's going to happen is instead of keep paying my mortgage, I'm going to take my money and not pay my mortgage because I'm being harassed," said Harper.

Atlanta law firm McCalla Raymer represents Chase. They wouldn't talk about it except to say federal law bars Chase from talking without Harper's permission. Harper said that if Channel 2 wanted proof the foreclosure is off, we should show up at the courthouse next month to watch it not happen.


was it "Chase Home Finance " who gave them a second mortgage of $450,000 ?
whoever gave them the $450,000 must have had little experience in evaluating the worthiness of the borrowers .
my guess is that the lender just said : "you want money ? how much will it be ? " and figured they'd just foreclose on the borrower if things shouldn't work out .

extremely bad judgement by even some of the largest financial institutions is nothing new , is it ?
(one look at the business pages of any financial paper is full of the "large and mighty" that are tumbling - often after the top executives have helped themselves to fat salaries and bonuses . i guess it falls all under the heading of "free enterprise" - "free" of any knowledge and responsibility of how to run a successfull business imo ) .
hbg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 09:26 am
hamburger wrote:
was it "Chase Home Finance " who gave them a second mortgage of $450,000 ?
whoever gave them the $450,000 must have had little experience in evaluating the worthiness of the borrowers .
my guess is that the lender just said : "you want money ? how much will it be ? " and figured they'd just foreclose on the borrower if things shouldn't work out .

extremely bad judgement by even some of the largest financial institutions is nothing new , is it ?
(one look at the business pages of any financial paper is full of the "large and mighty" that are tumbling - often after the top executives have helped themselves to fat salaries and bonuses . i guess it falls all under the heading of "free enterprise" - "free" of any knowledge and responsibility of how to run a successfull business imo ) .
hbg


What? Are you suggesting that Chase is at fault for these peoples complete idiocy? Do you believe that a bank like Chase would be thinking ""you want money ? how much will it be ? " and figured they'd just foreclose on the borrower if things shouldn't work out.""

Don't be ridiculous. These stupid people had something given to them and now expect to have something else given to them because they were too frickin stupid to know how to live their lives. That's one of the reasons we have this crisis now. Stupid people who expect someone else to just give them things and money.

Does anyone know when the American dream became "give it to me?"
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 09:48 am
mcg wrote :

Quote:
What? Are you suggesting that Chase is at fault for these peoples complete idiocy? Do you believe that a bank like Chase would be thinking ""you want money ? how much will it be ? " and figured they'd just foreclose on the borrower if things shouldn't work out.""


why don't you tell us what YOU THINK the chase people did before they advanced the $450,000 ?
do you believe they properly evaluated the risk - or is that not part of their business practices ?
do they just hand money over to anyone asking for a $450,000 loan ?
the chase must have had an extremely smart loan manager :wink: !
hbg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 09:55 am
I'll have more luck with this.

http://www.julielenzerkirk.com/graphics/brick_wall.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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