Where is the US economy headed?

If the democrats succeed in their quest to raise the federal tax on
gasoline and Obama gets elected our fragile economy is doomed.

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H2O_MAN wrote:

If the democrats succeed in their quest to raise the federal tax on
gasoline and Obama gets elected our fragile economy is doomed.

That is really funny. The price of gasoline has soared under the Reps, but should the Dems raise taxes a bit, the economy is doomed. It may already be doomed due to the actions of your party.

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Advocate wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:
If the democrats succeed in their quest to raise the federal tax on
gasoline and Obama gets elected our fragile economy is doomed.

That is really funny. The price of gasoline has soared under the Reps, but should the Dems raise taxes a bit, the economy is doomed. It may already be doomed due to the actions of your party.

My party? Not!

And what the democrats want to do with our economy is not funny.

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Advocate wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
If the democrats succeed in their quest to raise the federal tax on
gasoline and Obama gets elected our fragile economy is doomed.

That is really funny. The price of gasoline has soared under the Reps, but should the Dems raise taxes a bit, the economy is doomed. It may already be doomed due to the actions of your party.

My party? Not!

And what the democrats want to do with our economy is not funny.

What is that, pray tell? And where did you learn this?

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Advocate wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:
Advocate wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
If the democrats succeed in their quest to raise the federal tax on
gasoline and Obama gets elected our fragile economy is doomed.

That is really funny. The price of gasoline has soared under the Reps, but should the Dems raise taxes a bit, the economy is doomed. It may already be doomed due to the actions of your party.

My party? Not!

And what the democrats want to do with our economy is not funny.

What is that, pray tell? And where did you learn this?

If Obama is elected we the people will be rewarded with sharply higher taxes and
a much larger, forever growing, radically more expensive federal government.

At least the Republicans cut taxes - A move overwhelmingly opposed by Democrats...
The Bush tax cuts are the only things keeping our heads above water today.

If the Democrats are allowed to increase taxes sharply, it will kill this fragile economy and bankrupt this republic.

I don't want this to happen.

As for democrats raising the gas tax, Google federal gas tax hike and see what pops up.

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H2O, It's amazing how you are able to twist things that Obama has stated about taxes. As Advocate has already pointed out, our cost of gas has increased over 100% under Bush, and you're worried about tax on gasoline?
On top of the doubling of our gas prices, I should also inform you that food prices have also increased by double-digit rates under Bush. Millions of families have lost their job, home and cars.

Where's your common sense? I doubt very much you have any by the opinions you post on a2k.

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H2O, Maybe you still haven't noticed it, but millions of American families are already doomed, and more will join that group for another few more years - thanks all to Bush and his Iraq war that's costing some 2.7 billion every week.

Your worries about the gas tax is about as ignorant an opinion about the state of our current economy and what we can anticipate under a democratic administration and congress. Look up your history about how our economy fared under democratic and republicans administrations if you must, but quit making such ignorant statements.

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H2O_MAN wrote:

My party? Not!

Well, it's shorter than calling it the party of whatever candidate the NRA is telling you to vote for, and the result is the same.

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Under Obama, the government will be pay-as-you-go. It is amazing to hear someone give Bush credit for cutting taxes inasmuch this caused deficits to soar. Borrow and spend is what is causing the dollar to sink out of sight. There is no doubt that Obama and the Dems will eliminate the cuts for the super-rich, whose income and wealth has soared under Bush. Cutting some of the military spending would create surpluses.

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old europe wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:
My party? Not!

Well, it's shorter than calling it the party of whatever candidate the NRA is telling you to vote for, and the result is the same.

LOL !!

No NRA guidance for me.

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http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/HawaiianFirefly/KoolAidMan_Fullpic_2.gif

What flavor is that Kool-Aid you're drinking?

Tax cuts caused deficits to soar?
Really?
Prove it.

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H2O, Do you understand elementary math? If you spend more than you take in, it creates a "deficit." Tax cuts must equal cuts in spending, or you have a deficit, because a drop in revenue with increased spending creates larger deficits; the Bush legacy.

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Back to the banks that were taken over this weekend. One (Heritage of CA) had assets of only $250M. What I would call a "community bank." The local dentist, hardware store owner and a lawyer decided to start a bank. They each tossed in some seed money and dreamed of selling their stock in a few years to some regional bank for a big profit. But the manager they hired perhaps wasn't too bright, and eventually the bank needed more investors. But there were none. That scenario is going to play out again and again.

I have been approached a couple of times about participating in this kind of thing. Ego often gets in the way of logic.

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rjb, This kind of scenario repeats itself over and over again in many "get rich quick" schemes. Most seniors do not know any better, and bet their life savings on "investments" they know nothing about. Before they know it, they've lost everything they owned.

Since my wife is not good at money management, my son will be the co-administrator with my wife of the Living Trust. I'm afraid if left on her own, she may be talked into those get rich quick schemes.

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Advocate wrote:

Under Obama, the government will be pay-as-you-go. It is amazing to hear someone give Bush credit for cutting taxes inasmuch this caused deficits to soar. Borrow and spend is what is causing the dollar to sink out of sight. There is no doubt that Obama and the Dems will eliminate the cuts for the super-rich, whose income and wealth has soared under Bush. Cutting some of the military spending would create surpluses.

Cutting spending in every dpet and eliminating the redundancy in govt would also creats surpluses.

Eliminating several depts and agencies that do nothing would also create surpluses, yet you single out the military.

Why is that?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

you have a deficit, because a drop in revenue with increased spending creates larger deficits; .

CI, you are confused - I'll go slow.

Basic economics 101:

Tax cuts result in higher federal tax revenues.
Tax hikes result in reduced federal tax revenues.

Federal spending is out of control and cutbacks must happen, but if Obama is
allowed to raise taxes and increase spending our republic is doomed.

Cut taxes and reduce spending and this country will suddenly have a surplus.

Democrats are the #1 champions of fake get rich schemes.

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H2O_MAN wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
you have a deficit, because a drop in revenue with increased spending creates larger deficits; .

CI, you are confused - I'll go slow.

Basic economics 101:

Tax cuts result in higher federal tax revenues.
Tax hikes result in reduced federal tax revenues.

Where did you take econ 101?

Tax cuts result in lower federal tax revenues with the possibility that improved growth will over time cause greater revenues than if there had been no tax change. (In reality, this is hard to prove since economic growth is affected by other factors.)

Tax hikes result in increased tax revenues with the possibility that impaired growth will lead to less revenues in the future than without the tax change. (Again hard to prove but we have instances in US history where tax hikes have led to stronger growth than normal and instances of tax cuts that have NOT led to stronger growth. By far the biggest factor affecting GDP growth is government deficit spending. The higher the deficit spending the faster the economy grows. When adjusted for government deficit spending there is no statistical difference in growth rates when compared to tax rates between 17 and 22% of GDP.)

Just a quick reminder H20man, after Clinton's tax hikes the economy grew at a faster rate than it has after Bush's tax cuts.
The numbers can be found here

http://www.bea.gov/national/index.htm#gdp
Gross domestic product % change from preceding

If we eliminate the % of the economy that is government deficit spending it gets much worse for Bush's tax cuts compared to Clinton's tax increases. Much of Bush's economic growth is based on government borrowing. Economics 101 should have shown you that you can't borrow money forever without having to pay it back at some point.

Quote:

Federal spending is out of control and cutbacks must happen, but if Obama is
allowed to raise taxes and increase spending our republic is doomed.

Cut taxes and reduce spending and this country will suddenly have a surplus.

Proven false simply by taking it to the extreme. If you cut taxes to zero there can never be a surplus. The only way to have a surplus is to have taxes take in more than is spent.

Quote:

Democrats are the #1 champions of fake get rich schemes.

This from the guy that proposes that cutting taxes will make us rich. Rolling Eyes

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parados, The reason why H2O doesn't understand what's going on is simply because the effect of taxes is not covered in Economics 101 which covers the simple concepts of supply and demand - guns or butter. I took macro and micro economics that explains much better the effect to our economy.

H2O also doesn't seem to know his history; that higher taxes is not the primary mover of our economy. He refuses to acknowledge that under democratic presidents (higher taxes) the majority of Americans lived better economic lives. If H2O also studied the economies of the world - especially those in Europe where taxes are much higher, they not only live better lives, but happier ones.

Conservatives like to mouth off negatives against democrats, but they're hard-pressed to back up their opinion with facts. Just look at Bush and McCain - the best examples of our deteriorating economy.

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Tax cuts result in higher federal tax revenues.
Tax hikes result in reduced federal tax revenues.

Not always
Not always

Depends on which taxes are cut, and by how much.

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History shows us the following truths.

Every tax cut in the past has resulted in increased Federal tax revenues.

Every past tax hike has resulted in reduced Federal tax revenues.

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Where is the US economy headed?

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