Where is the US economy headed?

Having a sitting president that was just impeached (Clinton) declare martial law would have been some trick.







As usual, your point is clear as mud.

As I've said: The irony that the likes of okie will never understand.
H2O just confirmed it for me.

Where's the line between speculation and excessive speculation? O.o

I should point out that it's not only Reid, but many Conservatives, who have spoken out against speculators in the oil market...

Cycloptichorn

Yes, and its maddening. Republicans want to be liked, and being around the good ole boys every day, they want to be able to concede something, as if the Dems might have one tiny good idea, but my advice is don't take the bait, Repubs, do not believe any of this stuff and fight them at every turn. Do not throw them a morsel now and then just to be liked. In this case, the morsel is legislating speculation, which is a bad idea. Do not go there, people. You will screw up the markets royally.

US economy had damaged, destroyed the global economy.

I concede I that I have not read the past few pages, for fear that it was going to be just more trash-talking. But the issue of the evil speculators is, in my mind, an absolute "straw-man" tossed up by government officials in the executive and legislative branches to find somebody to blame for their own ineptness in managing energy policy. Faceless, nameless "speculators" rather then the public officials who, for several administrations, should have seen this train wreck coming.
So (gasp), I tend to agree with okie.

ps: should I bother reading the past few pages?

rjb, It's not only our government; the American consumer went along with abandon what they knew would eventually bite them in the behind. Consumers must assume some of the responsibility for getting sloppy in their personal financial management.

I would certainly agree with that, C.I. Many of us were the children of parents who grew up during the Depression. My dad was born in 1908 and my mom in 1918. I was born in 1946. I was taught to save, save, save. And, when I was 15, my weekly allowance was cut off. "Get a summer job, dude."
The credit card society that sprang up in the 1980's or whenever crippled the consumers. And, yes, to a large extent, it was there own damn fault.

As I often do, I digress into a story which you are welcome to skip over:

So, when I was 15 and in need of a summer job, I got one on an apple and peach orchard. A few hundred acres. My job during the summer was to drive around on a tractor and a a big mowing machine, keeping the orchard grass down. Nowadays, of course, a 15 year old, even a red-neck 15 year old probably would not be allowed to do that.
And towards the end of the summer we put up a nice tent, maybe a 1000 square feet, down in the shade by the creek. We put in some portable outhouses and some grills and cots.
And my job as mower changed to recruiter of apple and peach pickers for when the crop came in in September. 25 cents a bushel.
I went about that task as tenanciously then as I now go after fantasy baseball and football players on A2K. We were competing for pickers with all of the other orchards.
I went after my schoolmates. Come camp in the woods, party, and make some money.
The turnover rate was huge. Some folks lasted half a day, some for a weekend. Few would come back a second time.
They simply didn't want a job that badly, much less a strenuous job where you were paid on your productivity.

(end of story -rjb)

rjb, All my brothers and I had to go out to the farms during the summer months to pick fruit; it was hard labor. I even did some "swamping" with grapes; taking turns driving and on the back of the truck. I had a small frame then, and still have a small frame in my senior years, but I'm hoping that "excercise" provided some good bones and muscles to last me a long time. LOL

As a matter of fact, my siblings and I get together about two or three times every year for Sunday brunch, and we just had one a couple of weeks ago. We all laugh at what we had to do during our childhood, and how everything turned out in our lives. The fact that my brother is a state politician wasn't even in our dreams.

I enjoyed your stories of working, and yours too, ci, and so were my parents a product of the great depression. I started driving tractor when I was 12 on our own farm, and I was throwing bales of hay about that time, doing more as I got older. Later, I worked for larger farmers all summer long every summer and earned enough to put myself through college. I had to borrow a little money from my parents my senior year, but I had it paid off in less than 3 or 4 months after I started my professional working career. My dear mother and dad taught me fiscal responsibility and hard work, and I thank them deeply for that.

No need to go back and read all the pages, rjb. One of my posts on the speculators was:

That is my honest opinion about some people in Washington, they don't have a clue nowadays.[/quote]

ci, your often repeated claim that Bush is an idiot, and the war is breaking us. My opinion is Bush has done a decent job on many fronts, with one exception and this is my admission to the downside of the war even though we are apparently now winning, is that it has taken far longer than intended and it is a huge financial drain, I agree on that point. Further, Bush has failed in monetary policy, but Congress, including the latest, is a total bust in my opinion. Dems criticized Bush on tax rebates as being meaningless, well guess what, that is now their latest suggestion to do it again! Also, energy policy, the Dems do not get it, we must increase supply along with conservation, and conservation happens as the price increases, but picking on speculators and producing out of the strategic oil reserves is pretty dumb, and not long term solutions.

We need a president to expedite the wars, stop the bleeding financially, and get with the program big time on energy, we need all of the above, and that includes more drilling, conservation, wind, solar, and nuclear. I believe McCain understand these points the best. If he picks a good vp, such as Romney, Romney can provide the insight and brains, and McCain the leadership, hopefully, on all of these points.

Last point, I believe a large component of our economic problems are due to social ills. We need a president to re-awaken us to our responsibility of citizenship, by using the bully pulpit, and we need to discourage single parent families using tax policy.

okie wrote: We need a president to re-awaken us to our responsibility of citizenship, by using the bully pulpit, and we need to discourage single parent families using tax policy.

okie, There is no magic "rewakening to our responsibility." These problems we have today did not appear overnight. Using the bully pulpit has no effect on most citizens - especially now when they've already overspent from their home equity, and savings have been put onto the back-burner for tomorrow.

The only people who understands the value of money and savings are those who lived through the depression, and they're disappearing very quickly from our landscape. Most are gone or are close to their last day on this planet.

Most others have learned about the silver spoon, and took it out of their most important asset, their homes, and forgot to save for their retirement - or that rainy day.

Sadly, you may be right. But I still think it is worth a try. Even Obama, I applaud him when he begins to speak about responsibility and how the dads in the black community have failed, only to be criticized by the Jesse Jacksons of the world, who make their living by enabling irresponsibility and casting blame on other people.

If Obama won, he could actually have an opportunity to provide leadership in the responsibility area, because people might listen to him. Instead, I am afraid he would revert to the same old tired Democratic politics of blaming somebody else for the problems, and then promoting more government bailouts. Perhaps you don't see it quite that way, but that is the way I see it.

At least we agree that many people have totally lost their way in regard to fiscal responsibility. That includes government as well, and let us admit we are the government.

okie, Do you know how long ago Bill Cosby chastised the blacks? How much "progress" do you think his bully pulpit succeeded?

Then Bush comes along with NCLB, and greater percentages of black and Hispanic kids are dropping out of school. Standardized tests by age does not work; ask any educator. All children grow at different ages, and learn at different ages and speed. NCLB is a huge failure for transforming our schools into "learn the test" schooling. With the underfunded mandates came the dropping of electives such as music, art and athletics. Maybe not in your world, but those are HUGE sacrifices for all students.

You may be right about Bill Cosby, but at least he tried. If more people tried instead of a voice here and there crying in the wilderness, maybe it would help.

I agree education needs big reform, and you know I favor getting the feds out of it, make the locals run their own schools entirely, sink or swim, thats how citizens have to do it, why not schools. I would like to see the kids participate in the maintenance of the schools, sweep the floors, mop the floors, and more. We need to quit coddling the kiddies. We need a major reform. And alot of it doesn't take more money. But unfortunately even the teachers don't know diddly these days, except global warming, the rain forest, and earth day. It is a disaster, ci.

Are the kids going to school to become scholars or janitors?

It seems to me that we all should know what it is like to be leading the elephant, and what it is like to be behind it, cleaning up.

Well, doing janitorial work when young certainly is not going to kill a path to being a scholar.

When my parents went to school, that is what they did. When I went to school, about all we did was clean the blackboards, in terms of cleaning or janitorial work. I have not heard anyone else promote this idea, but I have thought for years that we need to find ways to have the kids think of their schools more like they are their schools. Perhaps if they do a little cleaning here and there, dusting cleaning windows, perhaps they would not be so inclined to treat the premises with disrespect. It wouldn't hurt any kid to do a little bit of work as part of their learning experience. Tie it into some of their subjects, perhaps math or other things. I am not talking about working all day, but maybe 15 minutes, rotating groups each week.

Of course we would have the ACLU screaming bloody murder over child labor laws, and whatever else.

And this idea is not going to fix the schools by itself. It is only a small suggestion, as part of what I think needs to be done in a larger way, that is turn over the schools to total local control, local schoolboard, teachers, parents, and children, also to be funded totally by local taxes. After all, we pretty much turned out the most educated and most industrialized country in the world using that system.