Where is the US economy headed?

Sound s like a new thread to me.

Alot of people here probably are in bad positions and don't want to talk about it.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

I've been banking some extremely useful seeds for a long time now.

The currency of hard times, hardy seeds, self-replicating. Tobacco and Marijuana are probably worth the most in barter, small fruiting plants second, and herbs and other edible plants third. All part of the bug-out bag.

If you don't have a bicycle, buy one - and tools to fix it when it breaks. A trailer is a good purchase as well.

Cycloptichorn

That seems a bit extreme. I know that we have not seen a depression for 80 years so it is not easy to know what to expect, but it is not as bad as all that. And we could be hopeful, we still have a chance of avoiding a depression in the near term.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I've been banking some extremely useful seeds for a long time now.

The currency of hard times, hardy seeds, self-replicating. Tobacco and Marijuana are probably worth the most in barter, small fruiting plants second, and herbs and other edible plants third. All part of the bug-out bag.

If you don't have a bicycle, buy one - and tools to fix it when it breaks. A trailer is a good purchase as well.

Cycloptichorn

That seems a bit extreme. I know that we have not seen a depression for 80 years so it is not easy to know what to expect, but it is not as bad as all that. And we could be hopeful, we still have a chance of avoiding a depression in the near term.

There's not much downside to it. It isn't exactly difficult to keep a store of seeds which in very real terms are worth a lot in barter.

Cycloptichorn

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hawkeye wrote :

Quote:

The tread will spread. In a couple of years driving past all of those abandoned strip malls, fast food stores and former big box stores, and walking into mostly dead large malls, is going to be dang demoralizing.

all those people that worked in those malls will have lost their jobs too .
the owners of - and shareholders in - the stores will have lost most of their money .
the pension funds and others who have invested in the malls , will also have lost their investments , and pension funds will have a tough time meeting their committmets to the pensioners - current and upcoming .

i don't think there is an easy solution to the problem . since it took several years to come to this , it'll likely take as long to get out of the hole .

canada went through a rough stretch through the 70's , 80's , and early 90's . the canadian dollar dropped to about 60 cents U.S. during that time .
higher taxes , lower unemployment benefits benefits - and higher oil prices - eventually turned things around , but it was a pretty tough period - the government told canadians to "tighten their belts" - and we did .
while we also had a bit of a housing crisis , canadian banks were restrained from loaning money to people who couldn't afford a fancy house - so the banks stayed relatively stable .

as warren buffet just said : "the banks are to blame for the mess ; they lent money to anyone " .
you have my sympathies - unfortunately that won't pay your bills .
hbg

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I've been banking some extremely useful seeds for a long time now.

The currency of hard times, hardy seeds, self-replicating. Tobacco and Marijuana are probably worth the most in barter, small fruiting plants second, and herbs and other edible plants third. All part of the bug-out bag.

If you don't have a bicycle, buy one - and tools to fix it when it breaks. A trailer is a good purchase as well.

Cycloptichorn

That seems a bit extreme. I know that we have not seen a depression for 80 years so it is not easy to know what to expect, but it is not as bad as all that. And we could be hopeful, we still have a chance of avoiding a depression in the near term.

There's not much downside to it. It isn't exactly difficult to keep a store of seeds which in very real terms are worth a lot in barter.

Cycloptichorn

marijauna is in fact quite a valuabel and easy to grow thing isnt it?

i think u can use the fiber like hemp too? but im sure its not as strong.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

Families are at the mercy of the seas over which they have no control. The systemic problems that I talk about are the cause of the increasingly large waves crashing against their boats. Families however have a life preserver, called bankruptcy, which they will increasingly use. The US treasury however, has no such device.

The problem for families after bankruptcy, trying to start over, is that many don't have the education required to compete in the global economy, and America lacks good paying jobs. American families will be forced to downsize their dreams, often substantially. We have not gotten to this realization yet, and when it comes it will go down hard. There will be political hell to pay, almost certainly we will have a renewal of the class warfare that has been largely dormant since the early seventies.

None of this gets to fixing the systemic problems however. I don't know how they get fixed.

speaking of class warfare, will it ever get to the point where people pretty much are runaway in their use of force , piracy, etc.. to aquire goods they do not have the "money" to purchase?

Think- I want food, i shoot you take your food.

will it get like that?

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OGIONIK wrote:

speaking of class warfare, will it ever get to the point where people pretty much are runaway in their use of force , piracy, etc.. to aquire goods they do not have the "money" to purchase?

Think- I want food, i shoot you take your food.

will it get like that?

My crystal ball is in the shop being fixed, so I don't know. However, I certainly expect the tax code to be rewritten, taxes on the the remaining wealthy will go back up at least to 50%. The estate tax will also go back to its former vigour. The tax code will be used to redistribute wealth down the food chain so that what you speak of can hopefully be avoided.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I've been banking some extremely useful seeds for a long time now.

The currency of hard times, hardy seeds, self-replicating. Tobacco and Marijuana are probably worth the most in barter, small fruiting plants second, and herbs and other edible plants third. All part of the bug-out bag.

If you don't have a bicycle, buy one - and tools to fix it when it breaks. A trailer is a good purchase as well.

Cycloptichorn

That seems a bit extreme. I know that we have not seen a depression for 80 years so it is not easy to know what to expect, but it is not as bad as all that. And we could be hopeful, we still have a chance of avoiding a depression in the near term.

Cycloptichorn and I (and others) has been following the same sources of information and opinion for a long time.

These sources have calling it spot of for over 15 years. I will think to myself "no way that would suck" and sure enough again and again they are right. Now I just go with what they say. Mainstream T.V. and news is a facade.

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OGIONIK wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
Families are at the mercy of the seas over which they have no control. The systemic problems that I talk about are the cause of the increasingly large waves crashing against their boats. Families however have a life preserver, called bankruptcy, which they will increasingly use. The US treasury however, has no such device.

The problem for families after bankruptcy, trying to start over, is that many don't have the education required to compete in the global economy, and America lacks good paying jobs. American families will be forced to downsize their dreams, often substantially. We have not gotten to this realization yet, and when it comes it will go down hard. There will be political hell to pay, almost certainly we will have a renewal of the class warfare that has been largely dormant since the early seventies.

None of this gets to fixing the systemic problems however. I don't know how they get fixed.

speaking of class warfare, will it ever get to the point where people pretty much are runaway in their use of force , piracy, etc.. to aquire goods they do not have the "money" to purchase?

Think- I want food, i shoot you take your food.

will it get like that?

The lethal, Non-lethal and survalence technologies puts an end to class war and Revolution as history remembers it. Any resistence or dissent will be terrorism and the war on terrorism will never end. The government will be the last word on everything.

There may not even be any paper money.

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Cyclo, you better be careful about growing pot. The right will happily throw your ass in prison for it. Incidentally, the criminal justice/corrections industry is in a growth mode.

The Charlotte Observer has a piece today about how the area's emergency food-aid centers are almost out of food. The lines of people seeking help are longer, and less money and food are being donated. It occurred to me that this could be remedied with the diversion of the funds spent on Iraq in a single day.

I could well understand why a class war may erupt. There are already signs in the Charlotte area, where, for various reasons, a large percentage of blacks are unemployed. Every category of crime is increasing at a high rate.

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Advocate, Here in CA, our government is trying to find ways to reduce the prison occupancy to save money. It shouldn't be that difficult a task when we have so many people in prison for minor offenses, but we can always find our government to make simple tasks difficult. From estimates I've seen several years ago, it costs upwards of $65 grand a year per each prisoner in CA, and they have more "comforts" like gyms and excercise machines and three sqares/day.

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Advocate wrote:

Cyclo, you better be careful about growing pot. The right will happily throw your ass in prison for it. Incidentally, the criminal justice/corrections industry is in a growth mode.

Yes, staying out of prison will be very vital. Firearms, drugs etc,etc may not be worth it.

It is HELL in prison I know. It's like a concentration camp.

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amigo wrote :

Quote:

It is HELL in prison I know. It's like a concentration camp.

i can tell you that CANADIAN prisons get a very favourable rating from their GUESTS !
since we have five prisons in our immediate area (within 25 mile range - we are the prison capital of canada) , we are fairly familiar with what's going on in the prisons . we also have a TV program produced by the inmates and occasionally it's shown on our "parliamentary" channel - sort of like C-span Laughing

.
recently some american inmates were featured and they advised their brothers still in the U.S. "to come on over " - sems like a modern version of the vietnam draft resisters that came to canada .

btw canada benefited quite a bit from the many draft resisters that came to canada from the U.S.
most were well educated and became teachers at our universities , medical doctors and research scientists in canada .
hbg

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maybe i should head over to canada, but i dont know how other countries uh do whatever they do...

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Unfortunately, South Carolina is expending scarce funds trying to catch people growing, possessing, and dealing in drugs, including pot. The police are very proud of their collars, never considering the damage to those caught and the cost to the taxpayers.

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As most of our budgets get squeezed from the higher cost of fuel and food, it's a good idea to make sure you take advantage of discounts available at major retail chains - just by asking or looking for coupons on the web. Many retail stores guarantee prices up to thirty days, and will refund 100% of the difference if sold at another place for less. Ask about their policy when you purchase anything that you consider "high priced" such as electronics and appliances.

It doesn't hurt to ask for a discount no matter where you shop. Today's competitive market place is controlled by the consumer.

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Amigo wrote:

OGIONIK wrote:
hawkeye10 wrote:
Families are at the mercy of the seas over which they have no control. The systemic problems that I talk about are the cause of the increasingly large waves crashing against their boats. Families however have a life preserver, called bankruptcy, which they will increasingly use. The US treasury however, has no such device.

The problem for families after bankruptcy, trying to start over, is that many don't have the education required to compete in the global economy, and America lacks good paying jobs. American families will be forced to downsize their dreams, often substantially. We have not gotten to this realization yet, and when it comes it will go down hard. There will be political hell to pay, almost certainly we will have a renewal of the class warfare that has been largely dormant since the early seventies.

None of this gets to fixing the systemic problems however. I don't know how they get fixed.

speaking of class warfare, will it ever get to the point where people pretty much are runaway in their use of force , piracy, etc.. to aquire goods they do not have the "money" to purchase?

Think- I want food, i shoot you take your food.

will it get like that?
The lethal, Non-lethal and survalence technologies puts an end to class war and Revolution as history remembers it. Any resistence or dissent will be terrorism and the war on terrorism will never end. The government will be the last word on everything.

There may not even be any paper money.

your quite wrong... look at afghanistan and iraq, no way we are anywhere near a "victory", in the end rome fell to "barbarians".

guerilla warfare is the best form of warfare, because quite simply you almost are guaranteed not to lose or take casualties if your intel is on point. and an added plus is that usually when they go to war their money drops in value.

needles in a haystack, ghosts in the machine.

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Our two wars will continue to drain this country dry. Moreover, the money so spent is badly needed in this country. Repairing bridges alone will cost $1.6 trillion in today's dollars.

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Amigo wrote:

Sounds like a new thread to me.

I think that it could be a new thread, Amigo. Not that there is anything wrong with the discussion going on here, but the title of this thread and most of the content is pretty dry: housing starts, job creations. Statistics.
I would certainly visit a thread on alternative economic solutions.
I am NOT trying to drive you away, Amigo. I am suggesting instead a thead with a sexier name devoted to coping in these tough economic times. It might get a wider audience.

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To put into perspective all the pessimism, I believe much of our economic problem is cultural and moral. We need to raise the percentage of two parent families and reduce the percentage of children with single parents / unmarried parents. We need to teach responsible spending, starting at the top with government. We need to return to pay as we go. We need to quit believing that throwing more money at education and paying more money to worthless administrators will help education. We need to reform education, totally. We need to get rid of outdated, useless, and corrupt unions. We need to reform our tax system, totally. We need to scrap the minimum wage and get rid of layers of regulations. We need to enforce immigration laws seriously, and if we need more legal immigrants, raise the number, and allow every person in this country to be fully vested citizens, to be treated with honor and respect, instead of maintaining a fringe society of slave labor.

We need to get congress off their behinds and quit criticizing the institutions that brought us prosperity, example energy companies, and wake up to the fact the companies deserve respect and honor. Work and producing something is honorable. Profit is fine. Sitting on your behind in Washington and criticizing the people out here working is a disgrace. And teach it in schools instead of the Al Gore nonsense and tree hugger propaganda. Teach reality, and actually teach the children where food, clothing, and energy comes from, and honor the people that produce it.

Also teach that you can't get something for nothing , and if you don't have something, quit teaching that it is the government's fault. Teach the fact that millions of people are wanting to come here right now because of the opportunities available. Teach the concept of quit whinin and go to work. And teach the idea of don't buy somethin if you don't have the money. And you never will if you buy boos, cigarettes, pop, and lottery tickets. And outlaw all lotteries and gambling casinos in this country, it is nothing more than a huge drain of billions from things that could be more profitbale. At least disallow governments from robbing people by selling lottery tickets.

That would be a good start to turning all of this around.

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Where is the US economy headed?

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