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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:00 pm
Ragman
please be kind enough to peruse this link which is objective according to my Gandhian views.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/07frusg/07frusg.pdf
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:07 pm
no thanks! I see no relevance as the link leads to a table of contents page that has little to do with the discussion at hand. what is your point? Can you sum it up briefly?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:15 pm
Ragman
Yes, American manufactured marterials should be used unless it is not available. As an example all of the steel used in these projects should come out of American steel mills. That in effect is how construction helps all it's allied industries.
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:18 pm
Ragman
Here is my cut and paste or apt retort

"The economists' odd fixation on growth as a measure of economic well-being puts them in a parallel universe of their own. WorldMoneyWatch's website tells us that, for example, that "The GDP growth rate is the most important indicator of economic health. If GDP is growing, so will business, jobs and personal income." And the latest issue of US News and World Report advises, "The key... for America is to keep its economy growing as fast as possible without triggering inflation."

But hellooo, we've had brisk growth for the last few years, as the president always likes to remind us, only without those promised increases in personal income, at least not for the middle class. Growth, some of the economists are conceding in perplexity, has been "de-coupled" from mass prosperity.
http://www.alternet.org/stories/73286
my name is Rama fuchs
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:22 pm
au1929 wrote:
Ragman
Yes, American manufactured marterials should be used unless it is not available. As an example all of the steel used in these projects should come out of American steel mills. That in effect is how construction helps all it's allied industries.


I accept the usage of American mfr-ed materials as a boon to our economy, but what remains unanswered, Au, is the following:

Can there be such a series of corruption-free massive work projects and is there such a work ethic still there that would make all these projects be cost effective?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:37 pm
That would depend on how all those projects are managed. It starts at the top.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:37 pm
Ragman
Are you asking will the projects be corruption free. No of course not. Is there anything in the US or in fact in the world that that is politically motivated corruption free? Is our congress or adminisrtration corruption free? As to whether it is cost effective. It certainly is far more effective than a temporary give away based upon the premise that people will put it into circulation by purchasing goods and services. Even were that true how would buying goods produced off shore help our industries.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:50 pm
Bush is pushing for a $150 billion stimulus package; an amount that represents about one percent of GDP; not hardly enough to "spurt" the economy into neutral. The hill is still sloped 45 degrees. One percent isn't even a speed control bump.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 06:55 pm
I have a page full of notes inspired in part by yall's thoughts here.
The WPA was a response to a widespread and prolonged depression. Massive unemployment with no saftety net like unemployment benefits or food stamps.
Today's situation is a mere blip compared to that.
A WPA program today would be, in my mind, totally unworkable. The government would have to create an entirely new agency to run it. Writing rules to make sure the jobs went to Real Americans, awarding contracts to Haliburton to build shoddy bridges, deciding which districts to build them in.
It would take a long, long time for the jobs and the money to trickle down. The recession would probably be long over and we would have yet another entrenched government agency.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:14 pm
a rather interesting proposal by BUSINESSWEEK magazine to help boost the american economy :

BOOST EDUCATION AND HEALTHCARE SPENDING , but don't count on exports .

coming from BUSINESSWEEK (certainly NOT a socialist magazine , i would think ) , that is quite a novel idea - but will it fly ?
would it require an increase in taxes ?
do you think it has any chance of being found acceptable ?
hbg


Quote:
January 17, 2008, 5:00PM EST text size: TT



DON'T COUNT ON EXPORTS

Unfortunately, other potential sources of economic strength are not nearly as promising. For example, business investment won't be a big help to economic growth in 2008 as many U.S. companies rein in their technology purchases. And don't count on exports to bail the U.S. out, even with the weaker dollar. With European growth apparently slowing, demand for American-made goods overseas could slacken as well.

By contrast, the demand for education and health-care workers is still rising. Just a few years ago, in 2002, the Education Dept. published projections showing that elementary and high school enrollments would peak in 2005. Now the number of students is 2 million above its supposed high and still heading up. The same is true for enrollment in higher education.

In fact, health care and education have accounted for about 63% of total job growth since the last business cycle peak in March, 2001. Together they have created 3.7 million jobs. By comparison, the next biggest source of new jobs, the leisure and hospitality industries, added only 1.7 million.

So far the expansion of health care and education appears to be just enough to counteract the drag from the housing bust and the consumer crunch. Consider this: Banks, mortgage brokers, and other credit intermediaries have added roughly 350,000 jobs since 2000. Even if all those workers were fired, that would just be equal to seven months' growth in health and education.

But what if the economy still begins to slide into recession? Then policymakers have several choices if they want to try fiscal stimulus. They can offer tax cuts, like President George W. Bush did during his early years in office. They can provide aid to homeowners facing foreclosure or high energy prices, as Hillary Clinton has suggested.

Or policymakers can do something different: boost outlays on education and health. Remember that in the 1930s, John Maynard Keynes forcefully advocated the idea that government spending could bolster the economy in a downturn. Today, increasing federal health and education grants to the states, while politically controversial




source :
BUSINESSWEEK
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:16 pm
RJB
How long before we reach to the point of a depression rather than a recession? How long will it be before the nations refuse to keep buying our "paper" and redeem that which it holds. How long can we get deeper and deeper in debt. How long before our credit around the world is exhausted. This nation is living on a credit card that is fast approaching it's limit. Regarding the safety net you speak of where will the money come from to support it. In my opinion unless we can reawaken our industrial base and stop the bleeding we are heading for a hard landing.
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:26 pm
Let me wish that US Economy flurish.
Let the Economy start from the scratch and let the local potatoes have some fun before being grilled/ boiled/ seasoned.

Let me appeal all the legal/ illegal/ greencard holders to seek job elsewhere and allow the Americans in peace.
They need peace and be grateful for your stay there.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:27 pm
hamburger

Did newsweek perhaps mention where the funds would come from to support the education and medical spending was to come from.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:31 pm
au wrote :

Quote:
we are heading for a hard landing.


perhaps a hard landing is better than a freefall ?

some of the older "wall streeters" that appear on MSNBC on occasion - i guess they are coming out of retirement - have suggested for some time that propping up the economy is the wrong way of trying to cure the economy .
they claimed that the wrong message is being sent by "bailouts" because shaky financial institurtions and others will interpret it as : "if we make mistakes , the government (taxpayer) will bail us out '."
they thought it would have been better to to let those shaky financial institutions "take their lumps" - rather than just rapping their knuckles - if even that .
mediocracy should not be rewarded .
hbg
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:35 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
Let me wish that US Economy flurish.
Let the Economy start from the scratch and let the local potatoes have some fun before being grilled/ boiled/ seasoned.

Let me appeal all the legal/ illegal/ greencard holders to seek job elsewhere and allow the Americans in peace.
They need peace and be grateful for your stay there.
rama, I quit trying to read your posts long ago mainly because they never make any sense.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 07:36 pm
au wrote :

Quote:
hamburger

Did newsweek perhaps mention where the funds would come from to support the education and medical spending was to come from.


if you read the report you may have read the dirty word : TAXES !
if there is plenty of taxmoney to bail out failing financial institutions - through manipulation of the prime rate - and the war , might there be an argument for taxes to be used for education and healthcare ?
perhaps that mighht be considered as "revolutionary" ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:03 pm
hamburger wrote:
au wrote :

Quote:
hamburger

Did newsweek perhaps mention where the funds would come from to support the education and medical spending was to come from.


if you read the report you may have read the dirty word : TAXES !
if there is plenty of taxmoney to bail out failing financial institutions - through manipulation of the prime rate - and the war , might there be an argument for taxes to be used for education and healthcare ?
perhaps that mighht be considered as "revolutionary" ?
hbg


I afraid it's too late in the day to cry about what we should or should not have done . The imbecile got the US into the the position we are in and the task is to remedy the situation. As for bailing out the financial institutions it seems they are doing what they need to do inorder to remain solvent by selling pieces of themselve to foreign investors.
As for manipulation of the prime rate. that is a normal tactic used by the federal reserve.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 08:08 pm
Fooling around with the interest rate is a game played for the masses (of fools). It doesn't mean much in a world where mortgage interest rates runs close to 6 percent, credit card at about 20 percent, fuel and food cost increases in the double-digits, with salaries barely keeping up with inflation.

Now, our government is trying to sell us on the idea that $150 billion is going to save our economy.

There's no cure for stupid.
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 05:01 pm
C I
Lost causes
forsaken beliefs
and unfulfilled AMERICAN DREAMS
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 06:28 pm
Amen
0 Replies
 
 

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