114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 05:04 pm
maporsche wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:

I would fight this to my dying day.

Cycloptichorn


I'm honestly curious why?

I'm ignorant to the impacts that this may have (if any).


It's the first step towards a North American Union, a concept which I wish to have no part of.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 05:11 pm
Please define what a "North American Union" entails. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 05:22 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
Please define what a "North American Union" entails. Thank you.


An over-arcing body of governance similar to the European Union, transcending national borders.

It isn't that I don't think world governance lies in the future of mankind; I just don't perceive much added value for the US in such a deal at this point.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2007 10:26 pm
"There is in fact little today that an American can be proud of, unless he happens to be one of the lucky few to have collected an annual bonus or won the Nobel Peace Prize. The only thing that has doubled in the seven years of the Bush administration is the country's military budget. By comparison, the average US family income has stagnated in the last decade or so.

A look at the US economy doesn't exactly offer grounds for optimism. The US's share of global exports has been cut in half since 1960. The balance of trade deficit has skyrocketed from about $80 billion in 1992 to a forecast $700 billion in 2007. The dollar has lost 24 percent of its value against the euro.

The Bush administration's answer to skeptics is that America is still growing at a faster rate than Europe. Consumer spending drives the economy, say politicians in Washington. But since when has consumer spending made a nation wealthy?"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,519890,00.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 11:25 am
Rama, All that is nonsense! If Americans fail to recognize the damage done by Bush, it's our own fault. That the majority of the middle-class lost buying power and lost their health insurance should be a clue for most, but some Bush apologists still say Bush has done a good job on our economy. There's no cure for stupid. I'd like to hear about how those who support Bush tell us how their a) savings have increased during the past seven years, b) that their level of debt is now lower, and c) that their health insurance is covered at the same level it was in 2000. Also, they are not in danger of losing their homes.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 11:33 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Rama, All that is nonsense! If Americans fail to recognize the damage done by Bush, it's our own fault. That the majority of the middle-class lost buying power and lost their health insurance should be a clue for most, but some Bush apologists still say Bush has done a good job on our economy. There's no cure for stupid. I'd like to hear about how those who support Bush tell us how their a) savings have increased during the past seven years, b) that their level of debt is now lower, and c) that their health insurance is covered at the same level it was in 2000. Also, they are not in danger of losing their homes.


a) My savings and investments have doubled since Bush became President.
The tax cuts helped my investment power because I had more money to invest, and I made some smart decisions.

b)My leel of debt is quite a bit lower.
My house, car, and pickup truck are all paid off, I only have 1 credit card and right now it is paid off.

c) My company provided health insurance costs me $1 a week, and its coverage has actually improved since 2004 when I hired on.
It now covers more then it did when I was hired.

And I am not in danger of losing my house at all.
Its paid for.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 11:38 am
mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Rama, All that is nonsense! If Americans fail to recognize the damage done by Bush, it's our own fault. That the majority of the middle-class lost buying power and lost their health insurance should be a clue for most, but some Bush apologists still say Bush has done a good job on our economy. There's no cure for stupid. I'd like to hear about how those who support Bush tell us how their a) savings have increased during the past seven years, b) that their level of debt is now lower, and c) that their health insurance is covered at the same level it was in 2000. Also, they are not in danger of losing their homes.


a) My savings and investments have doubled since Bush became President.
The tax cuts helped my investment power because I had more money to invest, and I made some smart decisions.

b)My leel of debt is quite a bit lower.
My house, car, and pickup truck are all paid off, I only have 1 credit card and right now it is paid off.

c) My company provided health insurance costs me $1 a week, and its coverage has actually improved since 2004 when I hired on.
It now covers more then it did when I was hired.

And I am not in danger of losing my house at all.
Its paid for.


You are not the common middle class family. Do some web search, and let us know what you find? If you have difficulty in your seardh, I'd be more than happy to assist you.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 11:40 am
Middle Class Squeeze, Issue #10
America's Growing Inequality Problem




Work hard, get ahead - that's America's basic promise, right? Not in the Bush economy, which has squeezed middle- and lower-income families ever tighter. Republican economic policies reward wealth, and tax work. CEOs reap great benefits and live lavishly, while workers get pink slips and pay cuts. While we can restore a balanced economy that brings economic rewards to both companies and the front-line workers that make companies run, doing so requires a sharp change from the agenda of the Republican-controlled Congress and the current White House. Consider these economic problems:
Shifting tax burdens: The Congressional Budget Office concluded (Aug, 2004) that President Bush's rounds of tax cuts did favor the wealthy. One-third of the Bush tax cuts went to the top 1% of households (those with an average income of $1.1 million per year). While those wealthy households got an average tax cut of $78,640, the average middle-income household got a cut of just $1,090.

Declining incomes: The Bush Administration will be the first since Hoover to lose jobs. Unemployment remains unacceptably high, and many unemployed workers have given up looking for employment. Many others who have found new jobs are working for less pay. According to analysts at Wells Fargo, three in five new jobs pay below the national median wage of $13.53 per hour. And over the last two years, 57% of laid-off tenured full-time workers who were able to find new jobs learned that their new jobs paid less than the old ones. In fact, one-third of them took a pay cut of at least 20%. It's not just that new jobs pay less; median household income has declined by over $1,500 since 2000, more than wiping out the benefit of the Bush tax cut for middle-income households.

Shrinking middle class: The number of Americans living in poverty rose by 1.3 million last year, to 35.8 million. And the number of Americans who lacked health insurance grew by 1.4 million, to 45 million, as health care premiums rose 14%. According to the Center for Economic and Policy Research, the gap between the wealthiest Americans and low- and middle-income Americans is the greatest ever recorded by the Census Bureau.

Skyrocketing CEO pay: Not everyone has suffered during the economic stagnation of the last three years. Corporate profits have grown robustly, and the average CEO now makes 300 times more than the average employee. And the CEOs who have been most aggressive in exporting U.S. jobs overseas fared best of all -- their pay rose an average of 46% last year, to $10.4 million, compared with a 9% average pay raise among CEOs overall - and a declining median income!

http://www.house.gov/georgemiller/middleclass/middleclass10.html
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 11:44 am
mysteryman wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Rama, All that is nonsense! If Americans fail to recognize the damage done by Bush, it's our own fault. That the majority of the middle-class lost buying power and lost their health insurance should be a clue for most, but some Bush apologists still say Bush has done a good job on our economy. There's no cure for stupid. I'd like to hear about how those who support Bush tell us how their a) savings have increased during the past seven years, b) that their level of debt is now lower, and c) that their health insurance is covered at the same level it was in 2000. Also, they are not in danger of losing their homes.


a) My savings and investments have doubled since Bush became President.
The tax cuts helped my investment power because I had more money to invest, and I made some smart decisions.

b)My leel of debt is quite a bit lower.
My house, car, and pickup truck are all paid off, I only have 1 credit card and right now it is paid off.

c) My company provided health insurance costs me $1 a week, and its coverage has actually improved since 2004 when I hired on.
It now covers more then it did when I was hired.

And I am not in danger of losing my house at all.
Its paid for.


It sounds like you've been working hard and investing well, which is good.

You should keep in mind though - you have lost 1/3rd of the value of your money since Bush became president. So you're investments haven't exactly doubled.

http://www.imc2003.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/chart_us_dollar.gif

Important to keep the big picture in mind.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 11:47 am
Cyclo, Shame on you for bringing "reality" into the picture. mm sees the world from his "vantage poiht." It's called myopia syndrome. Phuck the rest of Americans; he's doing just fine.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 12:24 pm



http://www.kyklosproductions.com/posts/index.php?p=57
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 01:33 pm
Now the U.S. is going to borrow from the international banks to shore up the mortgage loan fiasco -- another example of this administration being purposefully asleep at the switch. The rest of the world is going to eventually own the U.S. which has been predicted before by leading economist. Bush and his cabal are going to make sure that prediction comes true.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 01:34 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, Shame on you for bringing "reality" into the picture. mm sees the world from his "vantage poiht." It's called myopia syndrome. Phuck the rest of Americans; he's doing just fine.


Wrong!!!
My view of the world is quite simple.
I have worked hard for what I have,going without vacations, days off, or otrher things to get where I am.
I have eaten beans and rice, mac and cheese, and have brown bagged to work, just to pay off all my debts and get to where I am today.
Everybody else is capable of doing the same thing, if they are willing to make the required sacrifices to do it.
For those people who truly need help, I am more then willing to provide it.
For those who are either to lazy or who arent willing to work to get where they want to be, or for those who blame everyone else for their own mistakes, I say "screw them".

All it takes to get where you want to be is a little hard work and some sacrifice.
Some people are not willing to do either.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 02:39 pm
Naw, the American midde-class are a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings. It's strange though, that they're the most productive workers in this world.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 01:38 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Naw, the American midde-class are a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings. ...


Strange for you say things like this CI! You're part of the middle class, so why comment as you do?
Question
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 10:16 am
Miller wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Naw, the American midde-class are a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings. ...


Strange for you say things like this CI! You're part of the middle class, so why comment as you do?
Question


Irony; just a response to mm's postings.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 10:21 am
I immediately picked up on it but don't expect ironic humor to be understood by most on this forum.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 10:39 am
CI alternates his posts: Ironic, non-Ironic, Ironic...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 11:09 am
That's the idea -- it obviously gets some feathers ruffled up.

It's not the idle middle class that's the norm, it's the idle rich.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 11:47 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Naw, the American midde-class are a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings.

I didnt say that, you did.

It's strange though, that they're the most productive workers in this world.


I am saying that there is no reason that other people cant do what I did.
All it takes is some hard work and some sacrifice.
It means not using your credit cards for everything, it means not borrowing money you cant afford to pay back.
It means not buying a house or a vehicle you cant afford or not buying a new vehicle every year.
It means being responsible enough to pay off your debts, by whatever legal means you have to use.
If it means selling evrything you dont need, then thats what you have to do.
If it means working 2 jobs, then thats what you have to do.

Like I said, I have no problem helping anybody that truly NEEDS help, but I dont understand why you or I should pay for others refusal to take responsibility for their bad decisions financially.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

The States Need Help - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fiscal Cliff - Question by JPB
Let GM go Bankrupt - Discussion by Woiyo9
Sovereign debt - Question by JohnJD
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.67 seconds on 07/14/2025 at 05:17:35