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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 12:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
This might be the year that it becomes clear the Bezos and all those who put up with his massive losses for so many years get proven right. Of course at some point Amazon needs to make money. His buying of the robotics patents that run the amazon warehouses might have been the master stroke, as there is no reason to think that anyone can do what Amazon does as cheaply as Amazon does it.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 02:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
JCP has a fair amount of cash on hand. They have been reducing the losses for the last 4 quarters.

JCP just named a new CEO. When did they announce plans to try to replace him? Once again, you show us you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 02:30 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

JCP has a fair amount of cash on hand. They have been reducing the losses for the last 4 quarters.

JCP just named a new CEO. When did they announce plans to try to replace him? Once again, you show us you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

AUG 2015 is a long ways away for JCP. Then it takes time to figure out a turn around plan. Then another 2 years to implement it with what capital IDK as they are currently using cash from mortgaging most of the real estate and they cant go back to that well. Is a white knight going to put up the money? Doubtful.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 02:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
So, they aren't trying to replace their new CEO with the previous CEO. You were talking out of your ass as usual.

It seems you can't read their financials.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 02:45 pm
@parados,
When they mortgaged the stores they bumped reserves to what was it, $1.2 billion? It looks like they had about $.65 billion of that left before this holiday season. Given the weak season so far and the heavy duscounting JCP started the season with it is hard to see much improvement by jan. Remember that JCP does not pay for what is in the stores now till jan/feb, so it is not like they get to keep most or maybe even any money that goes into the till between now and the end of the year.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 02:55 pm
I note that investors have been promised break even by end of the year, which was always a long stretch. It is not going to happen.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 06:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
JCP is down almost another 2% today, indicating that that there is no move to second guess the evaluation that they are doing very poorly.

It has escaped my attention till now mostly because the kids are all grown but Toys R Us is deep into the ditch. They have dropped 13% so far this holiday season. I am not sure what the problem is here but I do note that they have had increasing problems driving profits in the USA as their customer has moved to online shopping and to discounters. They announced Nov 6 a plan for major expansion overseas, which gave them a bump for a few days, but they are now down almost 30% from their 30 day high. Down 8% today.

Quote:
Stores began extending Black Friday to try to bounce back from the recession. Now, however, they have trained consumers to expect a constant stream of price cuts, and are jockeying for first place in a fiercely competitive race. The discounts may help stores reach the forecast of up to 4 percent revenue growth for the 2014 holiday season, but margins will suffer.
“I think sales are going to be OK this season, but how profitable are the sales going to be?” said Jim Rice, vice president at research firm Creditntell.

http://nypost.com/2014/11/23/the-curse-of-black-friday-sales/

Yep, retail has to learn what the car dealers and the restaurateurs have figured out over the last two years (with the notable exception of McDonalds), continually increasing industry discounting is a race to the bottom, profits are essential. THis being the case customers need to be weaned off of discounts. Just dont try to do it like Ron Johnson tried to do it over at JCP.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2014 06:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
In addition, according to estimates from WalletHub, JC Penney had a higher average discount of about 65.4% on Black Friday compared to the sector’s average of 39.5%. The discount activity from JC Penney was even higher than the average discount of 63.5% from rival Macy’s, Inc. (NYSE:M). The aggressive promotional activities and high discounts can negatively impacted JC Penney’s gross margins, and result in the retailer missing fourth-quarter expectations for gross margins

http://www.bidnessetc.com/30083-jc-penney-company-inc-jcp-dark-future-despite-strong-thanksgiving/2/

Not good for either company. The gamblers get paid from profits. JCP management is telling anyone and everyone that things are great again because the stores feel alive for the first time in years. The gamblers respond with "show me the money!".
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 02:32 am
@parados,
I thought Hawkeye would have rushed out to buy their kettle.

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/streams/2013/May/130528/6C7619088-tdy-130528-hitler-kettle-1.blocks_desktop_medium.jpg
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 11:44 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
J.C. Penney is trading about 5 percent lower Wednesday morning after Goldman Sachs downgraded its stock rating to “sell.”

Reasons: Its analysts don’t like several aspects of Penney’s third quarter results and said they believe competitive changes in the industry from off-price retailers and online will prevent management from achieving its multi-year outlook. Goldman said Penney’s same-store sales are growing slower versus its peers, it’s lagging on e-commerce growth and trends in core categories like home are weak.

Goldman Sachs changed its price target to $5.50 a share.

“While we were hopeful that JCP’s return to its “old” strategy would recover a sizeable portion of lost sales, recent results lead us to believe competitive changes in the industry from off-price and online will prevent management from achieving its multi-year outlook.

“We expect future earnings misses and corresponding downward revisions to consensus estimates,” said the report released Wednesday before the market opened.

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/12/goldman-sachs-downgrade-moving-j-c-penney-stock.html/

Not waiting to see how this season goes.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 12:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Many analysts were concerned by the National Retail Federation (NRF)'s estimate that holiday sales fell 11 percent during the holiday weekend (Thursday through Sunday) from a year earlier.

But others, including Gerald Storch, former CEO of Toys R Us, contested the data. "I don't believe any way whatsoever sales were down 11 percent over the weekend," Storch, now CEO of Storch Advisors, tells CNBC. "That number is a bad outlier."

However, he admits, "it's not as good as people like."

Storch notes the NRF survey results are unreliable because they are based on consumer polling and self-reporting conducted halfway through the weekend. Consumers estimate what they will spend for the rest of the period.

The survey showed that shoppers spent $380.95 on average during the four days, down 6.4 percent from $407.02 last year. And shoppers spent $159.55 on the Internet, down 10.2 percent from 2013.

The online sales statistic is "a ridiculous piece of data," Storch states, adding that Wal-Mart and Target reported strong online sales for Thanksgiving Day

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.Newsmax.com/Finance/Storch-holiday-sales-NRF/2014/12/01/id/610285/#ixzz3KrKw2uIW


Doubtful, however we are not going to know definitively how this season went till about mid Jan. The conscientious however is that shoppers are waiting for better deals, and are being very careful with their money, which will make it difficult for retailers to make money.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 02:20 pm
You're basing the health of a nation's economy on retail sales of junk imported from China? Now that's funny.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 02:27 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

You're basing the health of a nation's economy on retail sales of junk imported from China? Now that's funny.


Could you please elaborate?

Personal consumption is about 70% of GDP, and holiday spending is discretionary, if consumers dont have it or dont want to spend it( for instance are saving for a rainy day) then they hold off, if they do have it and/or feel good about their income future the spend it....at least this is the conventional wisdom. Holiday spending immediately impacts the economy, and it serves as a barometer for how the citizens feel about the future.

If you know better then educate us. I am sure that your argument will be fascinating.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 02:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If you know better then educate us. I am sure that your argument will be fascinating.


You still believe the MSM, and Wall street propaganda?

You're a special kind of retarded.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 02:49 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:



You still believe the MSM, and Wall street propaganda?

You're a special kind of retarded.


where is your better idea? Let me guess, you dont have one do you.....
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 02:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
http://www.moneycrashers.com/leading-lagging-economic-indicators/

Knock yourself out. Balance of trade SHOULD be the strongest indicator of a growing economy. Unfortunately, when the fed can create money, without any basis in actual growth, the only people who benefit are the criminals of Wall street, and a corrupted congress.

Do some research. You nation is in the hands of organised criminals.

Start here.

By Matt Taibbi | January 4, 2013
Quote:

It has been four long winters since the federal government, in the hulking, shaven-skulled, Alien Nation-esque form of then-Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, committed $700 billion in taxpayer money to rescue Wall Street from its own chicanery and greed. To listen to the bankers and their allies in Washington tell it, you'd think the bailout was the best thing to hit the American economy since the invention of the assembly line. Not only did it prevent another Great Depression, we've been told, but the money has all been paid back, and the government even made a profit. No harm, no foul – right?

Wrong.

It was all a lie – one of the biggest and most elaborate falsehoods ever sold to the American people. We were told that the taxpayer was stepping in – only temporarily, mind you – to prop up the economy and save the world from financial catastrophe. What we actually ended up doing was the exact opposite: committing American taxpayers to permanent, blind support of an ungovernable, unregulatable, hyperconcentrated new financial system that exacerbates the greed and inequality that caused the crash, and forces Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup to increase risk rather than reduce it. The result is one of those deals where one wrong decision early on blossoms into a lush nightmare of unintended consequences. We thought we were just letting a friend crash at the house for a few days; we ended up with a family of hillbillies who moved in forever, sleeping nine to a bed and building a meth lab on the front lawn.



hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 03:20 pm
@Builder,
Quote:
Balance of trade SHOULD be the strongest indicator of a growing economy


Cancer grows too, growing does not make it healthy/good. A well functioning economy portions out capital in a way to better the lives of humans, and facilitates a high quality of life. While I understand that the economic order as it is currently constructed needs to grow economic activity in order to survive and keep the citizens from burning it down it does not in fact do its job very well. However, in my opinion it is too late to reform the current economic world order, and we dont have functioning political systems to get the job done even if we wanted to try. How this ends is a crash and then death, with a new economic scheme born to replace it.

Dont mistake my taking the pulse of the current economy as a statement from me that it is healthy. However, I am not hearing from you argument for why taking the pulse from retail spending is not accurate. When the citizens are either unwilling or unable to buy crap for christmas we will know that the end is near.

The next economy will most certainly not encourage greed or high consumption. I dont think I will live long enough to see how it will work, but I hope too.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 03:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
...in my opinion it is too late to reform the current economic world order, and we dont have functioning political systems to get the job done even if we wanted to try.


So you focus upon retail sales, and pretend that it's all going to be okay?

Quote:
I am not hearing from you argument for why taking the pulse from retail spending is not accurate.


I've led the horse to water. It's up to you to take a long deep draught of the truth.

Quote:
The next economy will most certainly not encourage greed or high consumption.


What next economy? If it's an economy, it will be based on consumerism. If it's a collectivism, it will not.

You really think 300 million people can be converted to collectivism? En masse?

Get the bribes and lobbying out of politics.
www.99rise.org/
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 03:37 pm
@Builder,
Quote:
So you focus upon retail sales, and pretend that it's all going to be okay?
I focus on retail because it shows how this economy is doing, how close to its inevitable death we are

Quote:
I've led the horse to water. It's up to you to take a long deep draught of the truth.
If you have an argument make it, me reading someone else is me hearing their position.

Quote:
What next economy? If it's an economy, it will be based on consumerism
It cant be, the earth cant take it, and it encourages some of the worst human traits.

Quote:
You really think 300 million people can be converted to collectivism? En masse?
That is what I advocate. It will be something very unlike what we do now, I just dont know what.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2014 03:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
That is what I advocate. It will be something very unlike what we do now, I just dont know what.


So you contribute to the "I just don't know what." by cheerleading mass consumerism, and supporting the death of the planet by reporting on it?

There's plenty of avenues for civil disobedience, and this thread ain't one of them.
www.99rise.org/
 

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