114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 01:08 am
@Builder,
Quote:
Does your graphic take inflation into account?

please tell me that you can comprehend simple graphs.

Yes.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 01:13 am
@hawkeye10,
Please tell me that you can comprehend simple economics.

Your graph nowhere mentions inflation. It shows an eleven thousand dollar increase in average wages over a period of fifteen years.

If you're here to play psyche games, or attack me personally, make your case clear.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 01:22 am
@Builder,
Quote:
Your graph nowhere mentions inflation


bullshit, the top graph clearly says that it is in 2006 dollars, the other one clearly says that it is in 2012 dollars

Quote:
If you're here to play psyche games, or attack me personally, make your case clear.
I am here to compare notes, and the state of the economy is a major area of interest to me, not least because I am a business owner who is competing day in and day out in this economy.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 01:31 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
bullshit, the top graph clearly says that it is in 2006 dollars, the other one clearly says that it is in 2012 dollars


Which is why I had to ask if you had a grasp on basic economics 1o1

Purchasing value and inflationary value means the increase over thirty years didn't actually keep up with inflation. Your graph spans a longer term, but for the ease of calculation, I selected the three decades for convenience.

By all means, shift the parameters either side of mine, if you'd like to check for consistency.

And I'll post this informative video again.

In case you all missed it when it went viral a little while ago.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 09:35 am
@Builder,
1. How has that 16 billion affected our economy? * You claimed it had zero effect.
2. Hawk is not part of this conversation. Your diversion is childish at best.
3. How was the QE stimulus overboard? I doubt you even understand the effect of the feds repurchase of bonds.
4. It again proves you know nothing about the stock market by saying.
Quote:
and the stock market, to stimulate the exchange of shares

Prove this statement? You can't. Do you know why? Because the market doesn't work the way you claim it does.
A: It works when companies show profit and the stock price earnings ratio as seen by the investor is seen as a good investment.

You'd better warn Warren Buffett that all his purchases are over valued. LOL
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 10:15 am
@Builder,
You wrote,
Quote:
You're believing that a market bouyed by a direct injection of fabricated wealth is actually going to make a permanent impact on your lives.


Explain in detail what you mean by "fabricated wealth?"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 10:20 am
@Builder,
I'm not trolling; I'm asking you to explain your statements that ignores
understanding the government's $16 trillion or the fed's $85 billion bond repurchase.

I'll ask again; where did you study Economics? Very simple question.

You fail to understand the fundamentals of Economics or the stock market.

I'm proving that by my questions that you can't answer.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 10:33 am
@cicerone imposter,
Here's the total return from the stock market until 2012.
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/Tak_Nomura/DowYearlyTotalReturn1929-2012_zps09537926.jpg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 10:35 am
@cicerone imposter,
Here's the DOW's 100 year history.
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/Tak_Nomura/DOW100yearhistory_zpsc044df67.jpg

Now, explain to 'us' how the monthly $85 billion fed's repurchase of bonds will impact the DOW?

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 10:39 am
@cicerone imposter,
One more thing; when you decide to post any opinion on a public forum such as a2k, anyone is free to question your statement. That's not trolling; it's asking for clarity.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 10:40 am
@cicerone imposter,
Have you not noticed that when they talk about stopping or lowering the amount of QE, the stock market drops in value. They mention that they will keep QE at current levels, and the market recovers?
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:06 pm
You're a believer in smoke and mirrors, CI. And you haven't answered my question.

The following is taken verbatim from Marketwatch


Outside the Box Archives

Nov. 21, 2013, 1:58 p.m. EST
‘Taper’ or not, QE3 isn’t working
Commentary: It’s time for something different


By Anthony Mirhaydari

What do you think about the recovery so far?

Like so much in life, it depends on your perspective. For well-to-do investors and spendthrift politicians, as well as the megabanks, it’s been a ball. The Federal Reserve stimulus that’s been driving this hot mess of an economy forward has overwhelmingly benefited them.

It’s a subject worth discussing as the Fed comes back to the idea of tapering its ongoing $85-billion-a-month bond-purchase program in favor of a “forward guidance” strategy just as current vice-chair Janet Yellen prepares to take the helm.

The S&P 500 has climbed 170% from its bear-market low. Too-big-to-fail bank balance sheets and profits have exploded. And the cost of the Treasury’s borrow-and-spend addiction as a share of GDP has fallen to a level not seen since the 1960s — despite the fact the national debt now totals $17.1 trillion.

Yet things aren’t so good for regular, wage-earning Americans.

The dichotomy was brought to life for me by a trip to the Las Vegas MoneyShow earlier this year where fellow speakers and panelists were practically foaming at the mouth at the unbroken rise of stocks like Johnson & Johnson JNJ -0.02% and Tesla Motors TSLA +0.19% ; while the gondolier at the Venetian, after learning I was there to speak about the economy, said the state of affairs could be easily summed up in two words: “It sucks.”

Sure, home prices are back to mid-2004 levels and are up 23% from the lows. But the homeownership rate is down, and we’re still off 21% from the 2006 peak. And while stocks are up, middle-income Americans, who only own $12,000 worth of stock at the median according to Fed data (vs. $268,000 for the top 10% of income earners), aren’t exactly getting a huge boost. Gallup polling shows only 52% of American adults are in stocks at all — down from 65% in 2007.

Yet the job/wages/spending overhang is still there. The fact that Fed’s monetary base has swelled from less than $800 billion pre-recession to $3.7 trillion now — with $1.9 trillion of that simply sitting in the vaults of major Wall Street banks as excess reserves receiving interest payments from the Fed — thanks to QE1, QE2 and QE3, hasn’t fixed the problem.

Where we stand

The structural issues plaguing the economy aren’t related to the price of money. In fact, according to Stanford economist John B. Taylor, the Fed’s ultra-low-interest-rate policy could actually be holding the economy back by diminishing the incentive for banks to make loans and assume credit risk.

We’re still down 5.6 million full-time jobs from where we were before the recession hit. At the pace we’ve been creating them, from 2010 it’ll take nearly four years to close the gap. After accounting for the growth in the working-age population, the gap is more like 14 million jobs.

Meanwhile, real median household income has fallen to mid-1990s levels around $51,000. That’s down from a peak of $56,000.

So it’s no surprise then that spending, represented by personal-consumption expenditures, is growing at such a pitiful rate that it’s been associated with the last three recessions and is at roughly half the level we saw during the go-go days of the housing bubble.

Any way you want to look at it, things suck.

It’s not for a lack of trying.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:10 pm
And this is from the start of QE 3. (my bolds)



James K Galbraith
The Guardian, Friday 21 September 2012 06.00 AEST


Quote:
Quantitative easing, the third tranche of which was announced in the US last week (QE3), is just a fancy phrase for buying bonds, notably mortgage-backed-securities, in which operation the Federal Reserve takes assets from the banks and gives them cash. This raises the bond price and lowers the yield. It also tends to boost stock prices – very nice for people who own stock – and it can spur mortgage refinancing, improving the cashflow of solvent homeowners.

And the effect on the economy of all this is? Mostly indirect and quite small. People don't generally spend capital gains as windfalls. Saving on mortgage debt helps to support spending but some of it goes to paying down other debts. People who are already underwater on their mortgages can't refinance anyway, and are not affected. Yes, there is some effect. But powerful stimulus, this is not.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:16 pm
@Builder,
Nothing like ignoring the most important sentence of your article,
Quote:
And the effect on the economy of all this is? Mostly indirect and quite small.


What happened to your fear mongering? WOOOSH! It just disappeared into thin air - like your ridiculous claims it has on the stock market.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Your comprehension seems to take a backseat to your emotional state, CI.

The ECONOMY and the MARKET are separate entities. Both articles are proof that the QE (all three of them) are merely welfare for the rich.

The rest of America is still going backwards, but by all means, assume that a couple of graphs from a website negate the opinions of professional commentators on the state of the nation.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:44 pm
@Builder,
You wrote,
Quote:
negate the opinions of professional commentators on the state of the nation.
LOL Further proof you do not understand Economics.

CLUE: Economics is not science. Professional Commentators do not mean much in Economics, because economists do not agree on the future performance of any economy.

The stock market and the economy are connected in ways you wouldn't understand. Ever hear of the Great Depression? Maybe not.

You also wrote,
Quote:
Both articles are proof that the QE (all three of them) are merely welfare for the rich.


Where's your so-called proof? "Welfare for the rich?" That's really rich! LOL

Where did you learn all this bull shyt? Really!
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Here's a clue for you, CI.

Your opinion is neither more, nor less important than anyones.

I haven't sighted any credentials of yours, but I can easily check the credentials of financial experts from their website whois pages.

I will be taking the opinion of these educated souls, coupled with my own research into the orchestrated GFC of 2007-8, and the aftermath of same.

Please do go on believing that everything is rosy.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Here's a link as to why economists don't agree. Try to learn something from this article - it will do you good!

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/why-economists-do-not-agree.asp

You really know how to make an ass out of yourself. I never claimed everything was 'rosy.' Those are your words, not mine.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 05:53 pm
@Builder,
Not true. Cut and paste from any of my posts that you can show as untrue?

BTW, I have over 90,000 posts on a2k. It should be an easy task for you. LOL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 May, 2014 06:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
BTW, I don't need any 'credentials' to offer my opinion in a public forum like a2k. However, anyone is free to challenge what I write on any forum - and I also have the right to challenge anything anyone else posts.

If you don't like to be challenged, don't post stupid shyt.
 

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