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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 02:20 pm
How will all of this play on the US economy?

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 02:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Not only is a lot of the money currently offshore but much of the rest can be gone with a mouse tap. You can't tax wealth that is already gone which is controlled by people who are also gone. You will be left with some houses and cars..not much else.


Nonsense wealth is not pieces of papers or digits in a computer that is only a symbol standing for a share of the total economic system of that nation and those shares are own under the rules and the terms of the government. You can not move the train work force, the infrastructure, the raw resources and so on that turn a nation into a wealth producing economic engine.

The backing of the dollar is not gold but the GNP of the nation and only as good as what real goods or services someone can turn it into when desire.

The power to tax is the power to destroy by a comment contain in an old SC ruling and it is surely the power to control those real world resources be the owners of those resources on shore or off shore.

If you wish to take the profits off shore that fine however we, as in the government, will tax it at whatever rate we desire to and the funds will be move under the government control. Oh for those profits to mean anything the funds need to flow back to buy goods and services.

Dollars in the from of papers or computer digits sitting offshore amount to the granting of zero interest loans.

Last note we are the nation where funds are pouring into from all over the planet not leaving due to the fact once more we are the strongest nation on earth by far with the world reserve currency.

I suggest that you look into taking a few online courses on the subject.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 03:10 pm
@BillRM,
By global standards America does not have a well trained workforce, lots of raw matterial, or a solid infrastructure. ....what we have is few hundred million people who are into gluttonous consumption and who for awhile have been funding that consumption with debt. This is going to end irregardless of what we do, and then the capitalists will move on to greener pastures if they still exist at that point.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 03:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
By global standards America does not have a well trained workforce, lots of raw matterial, or a solid infrastructure


Wrong Hawkeye as a matter of fact our productivity per worker is at the top or near the top of the whole world.

As far as raw materials we have a thousand years or so of coal and natural gas supply equal to a large percents of the total energy supply from the known world oil reserves.

Oh our science and technology is at the top of the world also and so on.

You need to stop repeating the talking points of the far right and research the facts. Take note the American created internet is a wonderful tool for doing so.

Quote:


http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-3228735.html

American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

Each U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report. Ireland comes in second at $55,986, ahead of Luxembourg, $55,641; Belgium, $55,235; and France, $54,609.

The productivity figure is found by dividing the country's gross domestic product by the number of people employed. The U.N. report is based on 2006 figures for many countries, or the most recent available.

Only part of the U.S. productivity growth, which has outpaced that of many other developed economies, can be explained by the longer hours Americans are putting in, the ILO said.

The U.S., according to the report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work - a second key measure of productivity.

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, $37.99, a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars in oil exports and high prices for goods at home. The U.S. is second at $35.63, about a half-dollar ahead of third-placed France.

Seven years ago, French workers produced over a dollar more on average than their American counterparts. The country led the U.S. in hourly productivity from 1994 to 2003.

The U.S. employee put in an average 1,804 hours of work in 2006, the report said. That compared with 1,407.1 hours for the Norwegian worker, and 1,564.4 for the French.

It pales, however, in comparison with the annual hours worked per person in Asia, where seven economies - South Korea, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia and Thailand - surpassed 2,200 average hours per worker. But those countries had lower productivity rates.

America's increased productivity "has to do with the ICT (information and communication technologies) revolution, with the way the U.S. organizes companies, with the high level of competition in the country, with the extension of trade and investment abroad," said Jose Manuel Salazar, the ILO's head of employment.

The ILO report warned that the widening of the gap between leaders such as the U.S. and poorer nations has been even more dramatic.

Laborers from regions such as southeast Asia, Latin America and the Middle East have the potential to create more wealth, but are being held back by a lack of investment in training, equipment and technology, the agency said.

In sub-Saharan Africa, workers are only about a twelfth as productive as those in developed countries, the report said.

"The huge gap in productivity and wealth is cause for great concern," ILO Director-General Juan Somavia said, adding that it was important to raise productivity levels of the lowest-paid workers in the world's poorest countries.

China and other East Asian countries are catching up quickest with Western countries. Productivity in the region has doubled in the past decade and is accelerating faster than anywhere else, the report said.

But they still have a long way to go: workers in East Asia are still only about a fifth as productive as laborers in industrialized countries.

The vast differences among China's sectors tell part of the story. Whereas a Chinese industrial worker produces $12,642 worth of output - almost eight times more than in 1980 - a laborer in the farm and fisheries sector contributes a paltry $910 to gross domestic product.

The difference is much less pronounced in the United States, where a manufacturing employee produced an unprecedented $104,606 of value in 2005. An American farm laborer, meanwhile, created $52,585 worth of output, down 10 percent from seven years ago, when U.S. agricultural productivity peaked.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 05:11 pm
@BillRM,
There is a thin line between productivity which is to be cheered and exploitation. ...and we have crossed it. Far too many people are expected to be available for work 24/7 and are pressured to work off of the clock.

Coal...are you kidding?
Natural gas? Don't we import most of ours from Canada?

Science and tech? Increasingly the scientific papers and patents do not come from the US of A. China has mopped the floor with us in green tech industry..which as recently as 4 years ago Obama was telling us the we could lead in. We can't even follow, we are irrelevant.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 05:21 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.


How jolly exciting.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 05:50 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.


How jolly exciting.
and counter productive...our problem is not that we have too much work to do, it is that we have too few people working. Ideally no one would work more than 30 hours a week so that everyone who wants to work could work. But the apologists for the capitalists pretend that they don't know this as they celibrate long hours at the grindstone.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 05:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
and counter productive...our problem is not that we have too much work to do, it is that we have too few people working. Ideally no one would work more than 30 hours a week. But the apologists for the capitalists pretend that they don't know this as they celibrate long hours at the grindstone.
0 Replies



Will you please share your empirical evidence that you think may exist?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 06:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Coal...are you kidding?
Natural gas? Don't we import most of ours from Canada?


Hell no to both as over half of our electric grid is power by coal so that is no joke and the gas does not come mainly from Canada as it is being produce in the US on such a scale that the price had already drop by 2/3 thanks to new drilling technology in the last years.

Quote:
Science and tech? Increasingly the scientific papers and patents do not come from the US of A. China


Where did you get that nonsense we still lead the whole damn world in both of these above regards by a wide margin

Quote:
thin line between productivity which is to be cheered and exploitation. ...and we have crossed it.


Sorry we do not as yet follow the Chinese example of surrounding factories with barbs wires and guard towers and when a VIP such as Romney did a tour the workers fear to look up from their work.

Yes the middle class and the worker class is getting ripped off thanks to the very people who gave you your talking points.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 06:44 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:


Will you please share your empirical evidence that you think may exist?


Which specific claim of Hawkeye's are you questioning?

(Everything he said is common knowledge, by the way.)
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 06:52 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

CBS wrote:


http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-3228735.html

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

...

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, $37.99, a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars in oil exports and high prices for goods at home. The U.S. is second at $35.63, about a half-dollar ahead of third-placed France.



Higher worker productivity doesn't we're better trained. It just means we get paid more per hour of work -- with the trillions China loans us to fuel our economy.

Do you think an American house cleaner is more "productive" than a Namibian house-cleaner? I doubt it. But who gets paid more in an hour? Obviously, the American.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:21 pm
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

Quote:
the young will eventually revolt, will be willing to burn America to the ground


Reminds me of my generation in the 60s.

You say you want a revolution? Well, you know, we'd all love to see your plan.

You better free your mind instead.


The young would respond:

You say you DON'T want a revolution? Well, you know, we'd all love to see YOUR plan for running the country without running it into the ground.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:28 pm
@Kolyo,
Quote:
Which specific claim of Hawkeye's are you questioning?


Quote:
our problem is not that we have too much work to do, it is that we have too few people working.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:28 pm
@Kolyo,
I think there is a strong chance that we will have a revolution in the USA because of the extreme plutocracy we have. E. g., the top 400 people income wise own more than do the bottom half of our population.

There were many revolutions over this type of thing, such as those in France, Russia, Cuba, et al.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:51 pm
@Kolyo,
Quote:
igher worker productivity doesn't we're better trained. It just means we get paid more per hour of work -- with the trillions China loans us to fuel our economy.


Can not read? Try again as the article clearly state it had nothing to do with their earnings but the worth of the goods and services they produce!!!!!!!
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 08:15 pm
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Some of us old farts have been here before. Revolution changes the players and may change the culture for a period of time. Things will be back to the same at some point.

Do not take these comments to mean I support the status quo or the elite running the country. Power to the people.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 10:48 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
igher worker productivity doesn't we're better trained. It just means we get paid more per hour of work -- with the trillions China loans us to fuel our economy.


Can not read? Try again as the article clearly state it had nothing to do with their earnings but the worth of the goods and services they produce!!!!!!!


First, calm down.

Then, read up on the income approach for measuring GDP. When we produce X dollars of goods and services, we get paid X dollars. Our national income (Y) is equal to the worth of goods and services produced (GDP).

Finally, try answering my question again. I'll rephrase it so you can see what I'm getting at. In Namibia, the "worth" of a house cleaning is (I would guess) about a tenth of the worth of a house cleaning in America. Does that reflect positively on the skill set or level of training of American cleaners? Are we 10 times as talented?

Things Americans produce are "worth" what they are because there's so much borrowed money floating around, driving people in our economy to spend, spend, spend. Is the service of a Seattle barista really worth 20 times that of an Indian chai wallah? (I ask, because it contributes 20 times more to America's GDP than the chai wallah's service contributes to India's.) There are so many fields where the earnings of Americans suggest we are far more productive than Indians, Chinese or Russians, when in fact we are just getting paid more, because government and millionaires are dumping borrowed money and profits on us -- for example: medicine, nursing, law, and hair-styling, just to name a few. The work done in the BRICs in those fields reflects as much talent, but there isn't the same money floating around to reward the talent, and that's the reason the services over there are deemed to be worth "less".
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 10:54 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

I think there is a strong chance that we will have a revolution in the USA because of the extreme plutocracy we have. E. g., the top 400 people income wise own more than do the bottom half of our population.

There were many revolutions over this type of thing, such as those in France, Russia, Cuba, et al.


Actually, I'm more inclined to think reaction and counter-revolution will prevail, given the way the authorities cracked down on OWS with little outrage over the pepper spray and police repression. If things don't change quickly, we're headed for fascism. (Just my opinion.)
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 11:12 pm
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Some of us old farts have been here before. Revolution changes the players and may change the culture for a period of time.


My main hopes lie with women. If you change the players so that women have 55 Senate seats and 250 House seats, I think the culture will permanently change. They're wired differently.

And it's a hope, not a certainty. They could be even worse than the men. But I get this sinking feeling that if we stick with the "old boss" he could turn into a fascist before long. Plutocracy will get worse and worse.

I am working for my desired change in two ways:

(1) I plan to write a book to get them more interested in Math while they're in school, to erase the 30-point Math SAT gap. (This isn't the most important thing in the world, but I have experience teaching Math.)

(2) I plan to volunteer for lobby organizations that advocate for the interests of working mothers. The worthy decision to become a mother shouldn't torpedo a woman's career. Currently, it's either career OR motherhood -- at least for many. Surely, even those who don't want to see life's deck stacked in women's favor can agree it should not be stacked against them.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 11:50 pm
@Kolyo,
I am shocked that I didn't know how worker productivity was measured.

Thanks - I think.
0 Replies
 
 

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