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Is this a correct assessment of our current focus on gender dysphoria?

 
 
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 12:37 pm
I ordinarily don't like asking folks to go offline. And I certainly don't agree totally with the speaker on all points. But the assertions about environmental influences are troubling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jevP4aLzzqc
 
dlowan
 
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Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 02:52 am
@neologist,
I could only bear it for four minutes, but I would say no, I do not think this is a correct assessment of our current focus on gender dysphoria.

That being said, I think it’s “having a moment” in the media, partly because it’s fascinating and always has been, partly because identity politics is having a moment and partly because of the sudden availability of puberty suppressing drugs, hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery.

I’m not sure that that moment is in all ways helpful to individuals experiencing such dysphoria

I’m happy to expand on this if you like....but I’d like a précis from you on how you interpret the speaker on the YouTube thing
Setanta
 
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Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 03:57 am
According to Plato (not necessarily a reliable source, but that is immaterial to my point here), Socrates complained: The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Hesiod, two centuries and more earlier than Socrates is attributed with a similar complaint--although the attribution is dubious, the point is that such complaints have been common throughout history. I consider that it is the state of being of adolescents that they are dissatisfied, and the mumbling fool in that video offers a complaint in essence no different from the complaint attributed to Socrates, or the complaint attributed to Hesiod almost 3000 years ago. The key word in your question is "focus." We are obsessed with gender roles, and I don't say that that is a bad thing.

Almost 3000 years ago, Semiramis ruled an empire that encompassed all of what we call the middle east from Cyprus to Iran, and from Turkey to the Arabian peninsula. As regent for her son, she fulfilled all the roles of a king, including leading successful military campaigns against the Medes and Persians and against Assyrian rebels. Was she dysphoric with her gender role? Hatshepsut was born 3500 years ago and ruled Egypt as regent for her son, who did not in fact become pharaoh until her death. She wore the chin beard (probably false) which denoted a pharaoh, and suppressed the priesthood which had thought to defy her. After her death, the priests attempted to destroy all mention of her, but failed miserably in that endeavor. Sobekneferu was born almost 4000 years ago, and is the earliest attested female pharaoh--but we know very little about her. Was Hatshepsut dysphoric with her gender role? Zenobia of Palmyra lead a successful invasion of the eastern Roman empire, driving all the way to Egypt. Was she rebelling against her gender role? Did Matilda of Tuscany rebel against her gender role? What about Eleanor of Aquitaine, Jeanne d'Arc, Queen Christina of Sweden or Maria Theresa of the Holy Roman Empire--were they all rebelling against their assigned gender roles? (Truly, although Maria Theresa's husband Francis was a financial wizard, he was hopeless for anything else. She had to rule effectively because no one else in the archduchies of Austria was going to do it.)

Adolescents and grown women have been "dysphoric" about their roles in society for as far back in history as I can see. Like the comments of Hesiod and Socrates, the author of that video is simply repeating an ancient and probably eternal complaint, which in this case focuses on young women.
neologist
 
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Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 11:36 am
@Setanta,
Thanks, Set, for the historical background. I would have been too lazy to make the effort.
No doubt many young people through the ages have looked on members of their own gender and have, at least, fantasized about more than principled love. And history relates more than the fantasy.
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neologist
 
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Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 12:18 pm
@dlowan,
Yep. I'll have to agree that the speaker is so far to the right, I had to hold on to my keyboard to keep it on the desk.

The idea that our current cases of gender dysphoria are somehow the result of a progressive liberal conspiracy seems more like a psychotic rant than an objective discourse.

But I was struck by his reminding me, prodding me, in fact, to consider the effects of the many endocrine disruptors that have found their way into our food chain. The effects of these, as indicated by what seems an alarming increase in the number of children experiencing early puberty makes me wonder how these chemicals may also effect a young person's perception of his or her birth gender.

Add to that what I believe to be a misunderstanding of the 1973 decision of the American Psychological Association to re define homosexual identity. Many take it as a stamp of approval, when IMO, it merely removed the stigma of choice from a distressing mental inclination.

We really have no idea what causes any type of gender dysphoria. It exists. Many young people normally experience same sex attraction, penis envy, and autogynephilia. Should we then conclude that merely considering these possibilities prompts a child to define himself or herself according to whatever focus is the attraction du jour? And, have we considered the long term consequences for children to participate in any sort of sexual dalliance?

Yet, we read where parents of children as young as six will insist their child identifies as possessing a gender different from that noted on the birth certificate. Does this sound bizarre? Just Google the topic how many genders are there. It's revealing. . .

I'm interested in comments.

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Setanta
 
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Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 12:56 pm
Recent research does seem to suggest that chemicals in the environment have become ubiquitous, polluting chemicals. But the relevant research links those chemicals to obesity, not endocrine disruption. The author of the video is playing fast and loose with the nature of that research. It is, or seems, certain that humans, domestic animals and animals in the wild have all become obese. The research of which I have read makes no comment on endocrine changes.
neologist
 
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Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 04:38 pm
@Setanta,
Agreed. I would call obesity a large factor. Perhaps greater than the ability of some chemicals to mimic hormones. But when you consider all factors, it seems safe to conclude the landscape is considerably more difficult for today's youth.

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