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Company's Work in Iraq Profited....(guess who)

 
 
RfromP
 
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 05:15 pm
Quote:



Quote:
"Having a Bush doesn't hurt," said Kreher, who acknowledged that the company was routinely engaged in Washington lobbying efforts. But, he said, Democrats, including a party fundraiser, also serve on the panel. "It certainly doesn't hurt to have people who know who to talk to," Kreher said, adding that the president's uncle played no role in winning the firm's government contracts.


Saying in the same breath that it "doesn't hurt to have people who know who to talk to" and that "the president's uncle played no role in winning the contracts", is that not a contradiction?

He joined the company's board eight months before Bush won the election………..imagine that.

Another payday for friends of BushCo™
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,716 • Replies: 54
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RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 01:25 am
I know everyone hasn't capitulated and accepted this reoccurring theme of BushCo™. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 03:43 pm
RfromP wrote:
I know everyone hasn't capitulated and accepted this reoccurring theme of BushCo™. Rolling Eyes


Can I buy stocks in this company? From what everyone says, they are well diversified in their business and I think I could make some real money in the company. Are they are of a mutual funds investment?
0 Replies
 
RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 04:24 pm
Baldimo wrote:
RfromP wrote:
I know everyone hasn't capitulated and accepted this reoccurring theme of BushCo™. Rolling Eyes


Can I buy stocks in this company? From what everyone says, they are well diversified in their business and I think I could make some real money in the company. Are they are of a mutual funds investment?


You've already been investing in BushCo™, its called your tax burden. As you can see by my original post you won't be making any money from this investment. You got a cool war out of the deal though.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 04:29 pm
Aaaaw, isn't that a touching story? It's all about family values, right?
0 Replies
 
RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 10:08 pm
kickycan wrote:
Aaaaw, isn't that a touching story? It's all about family values, right?


You give them too much credit.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 10:32 pm
RfromP wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
RfromP wrote:
I know everyone hasn't capitulated and accepted this reoccurring theme of BushCo™. Rolling Eyes


Can I buy stocks in this company? From what everyone says, they are well diversified in their business and I think I could make some real money in the company. Are they are of a mutual funds investment?


You've already been investing in BushCo™, its called your tax burden. As you can see by my original post you won't be making any money from this investment. You got a cool war out of the deal though.


I don't know about you, but my "tax burden" as you call it isn't any higher now then it was before BushCo, and as a matter of fact, I got more money back this year then I did last year. I would call that a winning situation. That means I paid too much into the system, which means I'm paying less in taxes. I would say that I don't have that much of a burden.
0 Replies
 
RfromP
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 10:51 pm
Baldimo wrote:
I don't know about you, but my "tax burden" as you call it isn't any higher now then it was before BushCo, and as a matter of fact, I got more money back this year then I did last year. I would call that a winning situation. That means I paid too much into the system, which means I'm paying less in taxes. I would say that I don't have that much of a burden.


Keep in mind that was your money to begin with. I'd rather have that dough in my pocket rather than waiting a year for it to be given back.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 11:21 pm
I'd rather the federal govt had the money it needed to do the things it NEEDED to do, but would stop wasting it on the things it doesn't.

I don't mind paying taxes, it's part of my responsibility as a citizen. For the most part, I am happy with the services I get for the money spent.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 11:39 am
An excellent statement, McG; I completely agree.

Baldimo,
Quote:
I don't know about you, but my "tax burden" as you call it isn't any higher now then it was before BushCo, and as a matter of fact, I got more money back this year then I did last year. I would call that a winning situation. That means I paid too much into the system, which means I'm paying less in taxes. I would say that I don't have that much of a burden.


Your tax burden DID increase this year. You just haven't started paying it yet. You know what it is? The massive defecits we are running. They'll have to be paid for somehow. You can look forward to a lifetime of paying higher taxes than you would have if we had a more balanced budget. Congrats!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 12:34 pm
"While it is true we have the best politicians money can buy, the thing for which we should be most grateful is that we get nowhere near the government we pay for"
Will Rogers


"Our government is constantly growing to meet the needs of an ever-expanding government"
Unknown

Over 85% of Federal Tax Revenue is derived from the upper 25% of wage-earners. The Lower 50% of wage-earners contibute a bit less than 4% of Federal Tax Revenue.

"The Deficit", while at a record current-dollar-amount level, is nowhere near a record in terms of percentage of GDP or in terms of constant 1980-dolar-value levels, and while it is growing, it is growing far less vigorously both than even recently projected and in terms of percentage comparison relative to many, many periods of deficit expansion.


A personal observation; any firm in business is in business to make a profit. If it doesn't make a profit, it ain't in business long. Any major firm, in any field, is going to have principals and directors who are relatively closely connected with government and administration figures - that's the nature of things regardles which party is in power or who is in the Oval Office. Powerful, influential folks tend to know and hang out with one another. Just as do tradesmen or entertainers or rose fanciers; each are communities unto themselves. And in any environment in which a great deal of money flows, there is going to be everything from incompetence through outright malfeasance. The measures to deal with these faults are in place and in use. Just ask folks like Lenny Fastow or BeBe Rebozo. Or Marc Rich - if you can find him.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 02:39 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
An excellent statement, McG; I completely agree.

Baldimo,
Quote:
I don't know about you, but my "tax burden" as you call it isn't any higher now then it was before BushCo, and as a matter of fact, I got more money back this year then I did last year. I would call that a winning situation. That means I paid too much into the system, which means I'm paying less in taxes. I would say that I don't have that much of a burden.


Your tax burden DID increase this year. You just haven't started paying it yet. You know what it is? The massive defecits we are running. They'll have to be paid for somehow. You can look forward to a lifetime of paying higher taxes than you would have if we had a more balanced budget. Congrats!

Cycloptichorn


You are missing the point; I'm going to be paying taxes the rest of my life regardless of who is in office and how the money is spent. Don't you see that, or are you just blinded by hate? My % of tax that I pay didn't go, so how am I going to be paying more? If you mean the money I pay is going to have to be spread farther, then oh well, I pay it they use it for things I don't like anyways so what is the point? In the end it comes down to the people who pay taxes should have more control over how the money is spent.

I forgot to ask if any of you were upset by the firing of the whole White House travel corps and the hiring of the Clintons cousin who brought in her own people to run everything? Does travelgate come to mind?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 05:27 pm
Quote:
You are missing the point; I'm going to be paying taxes the rest of my life regardless of who is in office and how the money is spent. Don't you see that, or are you just blinded by hate? My % of tax that I pay didn't go, so how am I going to be paying more? If you mean the money I pay is going to have to be spread farther, then oh well, I pay it they use it for things I don't like anyways so what is the point? In the end it comes down to the people who pay taxes should have more control over how the money is spent.


Um, you do understand that eventually we'll have to pay the bills in this country?

Yes, I understand that you would have to pay taxes no matter who is president. I'm not 'blinded by hate,' whatever the hell that means.

But the massive defecits we run these days are going to have to be paid for, and eventually, taxes are going to have to go up to pay for them. We're talking about billions of dollars. The alternative is economic collapse in America, which I'm sure you're not looking forward to.

The size of the debt/defecit determines how much you will pay in taxes later on in life; the bigger, the bigger you pay. While we may see some small variation from admin to admin, the method of payind that debt remains pretty consistent; the only variable is how much debt is being run up.

Well, the Republicans have run up a truly staggering amount of debt and defecit in the last four years, and they're looking to add much more by making tax cuts permanent and mucking around with SS. You are going to have to pay for this. Therefore; your tax burden did go up this year, you just haven't started to pay it yet.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 05:44 pm
Cyclo....read all three pages of this article. It should make you feel a whole lot better. Economic collapse in America is not imminent. It's not even close. The deficit is being paid down, and we don't have to raise taxes to do it.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050301facomment84201-p0/david-h-levey-stuart-s-brown/the-overstretch-myth.html

The Overstretch Myth

Summary: The United States' current account deficit and foreign debt are not dire threats to its global position, as would-be Cassandras warn. U.S. power is firmly grounded on economic superiority and financial stability that will not end soon.

Would-be Cassandras have been predicting the imminent downfall of the American imperium ever since its inception. First came Sputnik and "the missile gap," followed by Vietnam, Soviet nuclear parity, and the Japanese economic challenge -- a cascade of decline encapsulated by Yale historian Paul Kennedy's 1987 "overstretch" thesis.

The resurgence of U.S. economic and political power in the 1990s momentarily put such fears to rest. But recently, a new threat to the sustainability of U.S. hegemony has emerged: excessive dependence on foreign capital and growing foreign debt. As former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers has said, "there is something odd about the world's greatest power being the world's greatest debtor."

The U.S. economy, according to doubters, rests on an unsustainable accumulation of foreign debt. Fueled by government profligacy and low private savings rates, the current account deficit -- the difference between what U.S. residents spend abroad and what they earn abroad in a year -- now stands at almost six percent of GDP; total net foreign liabilities are approaching a quarter of GDP. Sudden unwillingness by investors abroad to continue adding to their already large dollar assets, in this scenario, would set off a panic, causing the dollar to tank, interest rates to skyrocket, and the U.S. economy to descend into crisis, dragging the rest of the world down with it.

Despite the persistence and pervasiveness of this doomsday prophecy, U.S. hegemony is in reality solidly grounded: it rests on an economy that is continually extending its lead in the innovation and application of new technology, ensuring its continued appeal for foreign central banks and private investors. The dollar's role as the global monetary standard is not threatened, and the risk to U.S. financial stability posed by large foreign liabilities has been exaggerated. To be sure, the economy will at some point have to adjust to a decline in the dollar and a rise in interest rates. But these trends will at worst slow the growth of U.S. consumers' standard of living, not undermine the United States' role as global pacesetter. If anything, the world's appetite for U.S. assets bolsters U.S. predominance rather than undermines it.

PRIME NUMBERS

Discussion of the United States' "net foreign debt" conjures up images of countries such as Argentina, Brazil, and Turkey, evoking the currency collapses and economic crises they have suffered as models for a coming U.S. meltdown. There are key differences, however, between those emerging-market cases and the current condition of the global hegemon. The United States' external liabilities are denominated in its own currency, which remains the global monetary standard, and its economy remains on the frontier of global technological innovation, attracting foreign capital as well as immigrant labor with its rapid growth and the high returns it generates for investors.

The statistic at the center of the foreign debt debate is the net international investment position (NIIP), the value of foreign assets owned by U.S. residents minus the value of U.S. assets owned by nonresidents. Until 1989, the United States was a creditor to the rest of the world; the NIIP peaked at almost 13 percent of GDP in 1980. But chronic current account deficits ever since have given the United States the largest net liabilities in world history. Since foreign claims on the United States ($10.5 trillion) exceed U.S. claims abroad ($7.9 trillion), the NIIP is now negative: -$2.6 trillion at the start of 2004, or -24 percent of GDP.

Unpacking the NIIP gives a better sense of the risk it actually poses. It has two components: direct investment, the value of domestic operations directly controlled by a foreign company; and financial liabilities, the value of stocks, bonds, and bank deposits held overseas. At the start of 2004, foreign direct investment in the United States was $2.4 trillion, while U.S. direct investment abroad was about $2.7 trillion. (Direct investment is relatively stable, changing mostly in response to changes in expected long-term profitability.) Removing direct investment from the equation leaves $5.1 trillion in U.S.-held foreign financial assets versus $8.1 trillion in U.S. financial assets held by foreign investors.

This last figure represents a whopping 74 percent of U.S. GDP -- a statistic that would seem to give ample cause for alarm. But considering foreign ownership of U.S. financial assets as a percentage of GDP is less enlightening than comparing it to the total available stock of U.S. financial assets. At the start of 2004, total U.S. securities amounted to $33.4 trillion (some 50 percent of the world total). Foreign investors held more than 38 percent of the $4 trillion in U.S. Treasury bonds, but only 11 percent of the $6.1 trillion in agency bonds (such as those issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac); 23 percent of the $6.5 trillion in corporate bonds; and 11 percent of the $15.5 trillion in equities outstanding. These foreign liabilities are the result of a string of current account deficits that have grown from 1.5 percent of GDP in the mid-1990s to an estimated 5.7 percent of GDP -- about $650 billion -- in 2004. Economists at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development estimate that ongoing deficits of 3 percent of GDP would bring the U.S. NIIP to -40 percent of GDP by 2010, and that it would eventually stabilize at around -63 percent. If the deficit remains at today's level, they foresee the NIIP growing to -50 percent of GDP by 2010 and eventually to -100 percent.

[Snip...2 pages] Last paragraph:

At the peak of its global power the United Kingdom was a net creditor, but as it entered the twentieth century, it started losing its economic dominance to Germany and the United States. In contrast, the United States is a large net debtor. But in its case, no plausible challenger to its economic leadership exists, and its share of the global economy will not decline. Focusing exclusively on the NIIP obscures the United States' institutional, technological, and demographic advantages. Such advantages are further bolstered by the underlying complementarities between the U.S. economy and the economies of the developing world -- especially those in Asia. The United States continues to reap major gains from what Charles de Gaulle called its "exorbitant privilege," its unique role in providing global liquidity by running chronic external imbalances. The resulting inflow of productivity-enhancing capital has strengthened its underlying economic position. Only one development could upset this optimistic prognosis: an end to the technological dynamism, openness to trade, and flexibility that have powered the U.S. economy. The biggest threat to U.S. hegemony, accordingly, stems not from the sentiments of foreign investors, but from protectionism and isolationism at home.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 08:49 pm
Cycloptichorn:
Quote:
Um, you do understand that eventually we'll have to pay the bills in this country?


I know this, and it doesn't bother me. I understand there is a good reason for some of it and the rest is just waste.

Quote:
Yes, I understand that you would have to pay taxes no matter who is president. I'm not 'blinded by hate,' whatever the hell that means.


It means that regardless of what the President does or says, you have something negative to say about it. Even if it sounds like a remotely good idea you hate it because it came from him.

Quote:
But the massive defecits we run these days are going to have to be paid for, and eventually, taxes are going to have to go up to pay for them. We're talking about billions of dollars. The alternative is economic collapse in America, which I'm sure you're not looking forward to.


Why do you think taxes are going to be raised to fix the issue? Couldn't it be that instead of raising taxes, whish is always the lefts answer that we could cut spending on programs that aren't needed or at least cut back on spending in those programs? Just because there is a program in place doesn't mean we have to continue funding a worthless program. I would rather see programs cut or receive less funding then raise taxes.

Quote:
The size of the debt/defecit determines how much you will pay in taxes later on in life; the bigger, the bigger you pay. While we may see some small variation from admin to admin, the method of payind that debt remains pretty consistent; the only variable is how much debt is being run up.


See above for the answer to this one.

Quote:
Well, the Republicans have run up a truly staggering amount of debt and defecit in the last four years, and they're looking to add much more by making tax cuts permanent and mucking around with SS. You are going to have to pay for this. Therefore; your tax burden did go up this year, you just haven't started to pay it yet.


To answer this one, do you think the amount of money that is going to be needed to fix our medical system is worth running up the debt for? I'm will to bet you think it is, well I think it is worth the debt to fix SS and I'm willing to pay for it. The only difference here is that I think SS will end up paying for itself in the long run where Medicare won't be able to pay for itself. The spending on SS seems the much better option, and would have a much better result for more people.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 08:52 pm
really just boils down to different values.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 09:44 am
Source
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:14 pm
To have heard some folks talk at the time, we couldn't afford Eisenhower's Interstate Highway System, or Reagan's fiscal policies. Wierd - "Progressives" - they sure don't appear to much favor real progress.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:56 pm
Reality vs Illusion
Timberland wrote:
Quote:

Over 85% of Federal Tax Revenue is derived from the upper 25% of wage-earners. The Lower 50% of wage-earners contibute a bit less than 4% of Federal Tax Revenue.


Nothing quite like making an argument based on FALSE information. 44% of the Federal revenues are made up by Federal income taxes. Income taxes are NOT the same thing as "Federal Tax Revenue".

Lets examine this in relationship to the REAL numbers from the IRS and Treasury.
According to the Bush Budget documents, in 2004 the Federal revenues were 1,880 billion and the revenues from Income taxes were 808 billion. Your 85% from 25% is based SOLELY on income taxes. As we can quickly see, personal income taxes make up less than 50% of Federal tax revenues. 43% to be more accurate. (Table 2.1) Now lets look at retirement reveunes which are SS, Medicare and others. Retirement revenues make up 39% of federal revenues. The 2002 IRS tables then show that the top 5% make $126,000 and more while averaging $244,000 on their returns. That means that the top 5% pay SS on roughly 36.9% of their income. Some quick math shows that the top 25% pays roughly 56% of the total SS payments. The rest of the federal budget is made up of corporate income tax(10.1%), excise taxes(3.9%) and other(4.2%). I highly doubt the top 25% uses 85% of the alcohol, tobacco, gas, and telephone. Lets just give the top 25% 50% of excise and other taxes and 85% of corporate taxes. The simplistic exercize shows the top 25% pay "roughly" 71% in ALL federal revenues, not the 85% you claimed.


Quote:

"The Deficit", while at a record current-dollar-amount level, is nowhere near a record in terms of percentage of GDP or in terms of constant 1980-dolar-value levels, and while it is growing, it is growing far less vigorously both than even recently projected and in terms of percentage comparison relative to many, many periods of deficit expansion.


What is "NO WHERE NEAR?" I would guess based on your earlier claim if I can get within 14% then you would allow me to call it near.
The budget deficit in 2004 (1) was 412 billion. A record in dollar amount but that isn't what we are looking for.
As a % of GDP the deficit was 3.6. That is not as high as the highest deficit since ww2 which was 1983 at 6.0 but it is the 10th highest since 1947 as % of GDP. So it is "not near" as a % of GDP.

When we get to constant dollars. In the case of Bush budget documents they use 2000 as the basis. The 1983 budget deficit was 332 billion and the 2004 budget deficit is 377. Only 4 budgets in US history have deficits of more than 330 billion in 2000 dollars. They are 1983 - 332, 1992 - 341, 2003 - 353 and 2004 at 377. Not only is the budget deficit close to being a record in constant dollars it IS the record since WW2. But don't worry, Bush has projected 2005 will be 380 billion in constant dollars so 2004 won't be the record by this time next year. As for your claim of less as % than at many other times? I can't find any 3 year period after WW2 that beats the last 3 years in deficit growth. Please feel free to point out those time periods you claim existed. The numbers aren't there.

(1). (From Bush WH budget historical tables, table 1.3, deficits in current, constant and as % of GDP)
source:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2006/pdf/hist.pdf

When someone starts with wrong facts, I ignore any conclusions they come to.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 04:28 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Quote:

Cyclo....read all three pages of this article. It should make you feel a whole lot better. Economic collapse in America is not imminent. It's not even close. The deficit is being paid down, and we don't have to raise taxes to do it.


I read the article Just. While it is interesting it has nothing to do with taxes and I do question how the article supports your notion that we don't have to raise taxes. The article basically says that there won't be a catastrophic collapse of the US economy any time soon because of many factors but it doesn't deal with the rising debt of US govt. I agree that there won't be a collapse soon but failure to address the deficit sets us up for one in the future. If we run no deficit in the general fund but don't bother to pay back the SS fund the US govt publically held debt will go from 39% of GDP to 70% of GDP in 30 years. With the present general fund deficits we could hit debt of 100% of GDP in that 30 year time.

The article posits that part of the process that prevents a quick collapse is recession. Recession drives down tax reciepts and drives up deficits. Something that would increase govt debt and get us to that 100% of GDP debt sooner.

I doubt that money will flee US economy prior to a collapse of US govt treasuries. The question is at what price are other countries willing to support the US govt and by buying US treasuries. True, as long as the US is the biggest player on the block other countries will prop up the dollar because it is advantageous to them. But this leaves us with a catch-22. The rest of the world can't support a US economy that borrows more than what that economy is worth. One of two things happen. Other economies run out of funds to support the US or the world becomes a larger economy than US so have no need to support the weaker partner. Its easy to loan someone $100 if they are buying $1000 of your product. But I wouldn't loan someone $1000 so they can buy $100 of my product.

The authors also make the mistake of assuming that markets are reasonable when they posit that there would not be a sudden run to exit US. Panic is the driving force in most market crashes. It has nothing to do with reason. When foreign govts percieve they will lose more in investments than in trade the run will occur.


Where did you hear the "deficit is being paid down"? It certainly isn't based on the Bush administrations own documents published on WH website.
Numbers are numbers. Look at the numbers NOT the rhetoric.
0 Replies
 
 

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