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The UK General Election 2005 Thread

 
 
Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 02:11 am
As I suspected. I tried to answer as honestly as possible, and it still came out as LibDem.

Labour -4
Conservative -17
Liberal Democrat 28
UK Independence Party 3
Green 8


(tried the copy and paste thing but just got a load of script instead of the pretty pictures)

I'm going to try the others when I have more time (i.e. when my boss is not breathing down my neck...)

Thanks again, nimh.

One thing that has just occured to me is that, despite this being a thread on a predominantly US-membered board about the UK election, the two most prolific posters have been a Dutchman and a German... Like the Sex Pistols said, "Apathy in the UK"... :wink:
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 02:18 am
Oh, I also got my voter registration card in the post yesterday, so at least I know that the Government is expecting me... And that they know where I live...
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Clary
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 02:54 am
Re the apathy - perhaps we are all so saturated with media coverage that we really can't summon up the interest to post as well! And maybe we are doing things - I have a LibDem sticker in my car which took at least 20 seconds of my valuable time to fix.
I would vote for any party that was able to bring house prices down to a reasonable level; but perhaps they'd have to be old-style communists.
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 03:04 am
Not apathy - I am pretty passionate abt my politics, and some say I am a bit right winger. So I don't post here. Last thing I want to do is to get into an argument with someone I like !!!
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kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 03:15 am
nimh

Thanks for the "Who should I vote for?" link.

Here are my results:

Your expected outcome:
Labour



Your actual outcome:


Labour 21
Conservative -14
Liberal Democrat 16
UK Independence Party -15
Green 14


You should vote: Labour
The Labour Party is broadly pro-Europe and takes a strong line in favour of all anti-terrorism measures, and of course supported the war in Iraq. Labour is against explicit increases in income tax to fund public services and against the abolition of university tuition fees, but has pledged to reintroduce maintenance grants for students
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 03:33 am
You know, if you read that paragraph at the end of KP's post, and clear some cobwebs from your head, not thinking of the modern Labour party, but only of the what ought to constitute the interests of labour in fact, of the trades unions, their membership . . . Kier Hardy must be spinning in his grave . . .
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Clary
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 03:46 am
Mine was predictably LibDem but my middle son, hitherto professing LibDem allegiance, came out as Labour. A pretty good test for floating voters.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 04:04 am
Interesting to see all the vote-test results! Looks like most everyone had themselves pegged right: Duke, Pete and Clary ...

Gautam, understand where you coming from - but still cant help being curious whether you would get Conservative in that test. And Walter, as abroad-member of the Labour Party - Labour or Libdem or Green? Heh ...

Grand Duke wrote:
(tried the copy and paste thing but just got a load of script instead of the pretty pictures)

Heh - dont worry - its just I'm a nerd (I pressed "Print Scrn", pasted it into Photoshop and saved it as a gif, uploaded it online and linked it in ... hey, I wanted to show ya what you would get! Razz)
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Clary
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 04:13 am
IS IT REALLY APATHY?
Here's what my 23-yr-old son, newly in the workforce, highly educated and very interested in politics worldwide, says:
i think i'm going to abstain this elections. not out of apathy, but because none appeals fully:

lib dems - lefty, p-c liberals appealing to the grey and green vote which is of little interest to me at the moment. full of parochial, petty people heavily involved in their local communities (hence they often do well in local elections and waste tax payers money campaigning for new recycling schemes, a new pedestrian crossing for the primary school etc). i do like many of the highly educated amongst the party leadership, but not a huge fan of kennedy.

tories - shamelessly jumping on xenophobic and anti-gypsy bandwagon and appealing to my most hated group - little englanders. party leadership lacks any charisma and has no appeal to me. ideologically the party i'd like to vote for though (domestically speaking at least) - less govt and red tape, flexible labour markets, strong law and order etc.

Labour - stealth taxes which i'm about to pay through the nose for (national insurance etc) and yet i can't get free dentist or eye tests (the only reason why i would use the nhs at my age - touch wood). i like blair and brown, but don't think much of the lower cabinet members (i.e. tessa jowell, the minister for education [name escapes me] etc).
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Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 04:26 am
Ruth Kelly (Education).

Recently slammed down at a Head Teachers conference for not knowing what the hell she was talking about.

Head teachers are normally very polite and welcoming to speakers at their conferences. This uproar is about the first on record.

If Labour get back in......god help education.

http://www.politics.co.uk/election-2005/labour-party/patronising-kelly-criticised-by-headteachers-conference-$13014910.htm
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 04:58 am
Hmmm. In my first test I answered with what I'd like the country as a whole to be like. Tried the test again, but this time I answered purely selfishly for those issues that would affect me, and put neutral for those that I don't care about eg. I don't have a car, so don't care about road tax; I don't have kids, so don't care about private schooling or tax credits. The results...

Labour 4
Conservative 0
Liberal Democrat -4
UK Independence Party -10
Green -7


It looks like I need to decide how altruistic I really am...
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Clary
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 05:01 am
Have you noticed how all politicians seem to think people vote selfishly? When I was young, in those heady far-off prehistoric days, many people voted for what they thought was ethical, fair, sensible etc. No longer. The only scrap of altruism might be in the LibDems 'you'll have to pay more tax if you want a good health and education system'.
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 05:13 am
Thing is, the way my personal circumstances are at the moment - late 20's, single, no kids, reasonable health, renting property, car-less, earning roughly average salary in a stable industry - there's really not much that any of the parties can actually do to improve my life, except cut taxes to give me more money to spend on beer, fags, CDs and books.

The question I need to ask myself is: How guilty would I feel when buying them if I knew that my elderly neighbour was waiting extra months for a hip replacement because NHS money had been cut to pay for my tax cuts?
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Clary
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 05:29 am
you echo my son's sentiments re personal circs, though he is harsher on grannies - because brought up in Asia and seeing MORE poverty, feels Britons are OK
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 05:33 am
<Jeeze this tax talk sounds horribly familiar!>
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 06:09 am
Just a few comments:

Setanata - nice to have you back, boss. And you're right, which why I guess they call themselves New Labour now: change of name + change of ethos = more votes?

Gautam - Post your test results! Let's see how right-wing you are. I have right-wing leanings on certain issues myself, but I average towards the centre overall. I'm sure that no-one would fall out with you based on your politics - isn't that the point of freedom of choice and opinion?

KP - Looking at your test results, are you sure you're not a closet LibDem?

Clary - I was going to mention that you come a close third in the "reverse apathy posters" league. Have you any idea if or how your son will actually vote? Perhaps a protest vote for the Monster Loonies would suit him!?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 06:56 am
Grand Duke wrote:
It looks like I need to decide how altruistic I really am...

Hmm ... or you can add the test results! Lessee ... ;-)

National interest:
Grand Duke wrote:
Labour -4
Conservative -17
Liberal Democrat 28
UK Independence Party 3
Green 8


Personal interest:
Grand Duke wrote:
Labour 4
Conservative 0
Liberal Democrat -4
UK Independence Party -10
Green -7


Added up together, this is what you get:

Labour -4 and +4 makes 0
Conservative -17 and 0 makes -17
Liberal Democrat +28 and -4 makes +24
UK Independence Party +3 and -10 makes -7
Green +8 and -7 makes +1

And even if you attach twice the value to the personal interest axis than to the national interest one, you'll just get:

Labour -4 and +8 makes +4
Conservative -17 and 0 makes -17
Liberal Democrat +28 and -8 makes +20
UK Independence Party +3 and -20 makes -17
Green +8 and -14 makes -6

Hey, the choice is obvious! (You think I should consider becoming a salesperson? Razz)
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kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 07:22 am
Grand Duke wrote:

KP - Looking at your test results, are you sure you're not a closet LibDem?


Erm...on the basis that the Labour score is highest, I'm still Labour.

I have certain points of sympathy with the LibDems:

1. Proportional representation would give us a more fair reflection of the choices of the population.

2. Very consistent message - the state should provide more/better services, in particular Education and Health but (the honest bit) you have to pay more in taxes for that.

3. Pro-European

4. Most environmentally friendly (though it's always easier to be this in opposition than government)

However, I have certain views which some would call right-wing but are certainly not represented by the Conservatives' appeal to the "little Englanders"/Daily Mail/Telegraph-reading middle classes:

For example, I believe that the provision of health services is fundamentally flawed by the fact that no profit motive operates and would therefore do away with the NHS, to be replaced by a compulsory insurance scheme to be provided through deduction at source for all employees (in the same way as PAYE income tax). For those unemployed or long-term sick/disabled, the government could pay for such care through social security.

(Hobby horse exercised!)

The balance of competence on economic issues with a value system that most closely represents current British interests, as I see them, is why I'd choose Labour.

KP
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 07:55 am
kitchenpete wrote:
Grand Duke wrote:

KP - Looking at your test results, are you sure you're not a closet LibDem?


Erm...on the basis that the Labour score is highest, I'm still Labour.


Sorry mate, I was making a (weak) joke, as the LibDems came a close second in your results, but forgot the :wink: to make it clearer!

Quote:
I have certain points of sympathy with the LibDems:

1. Proportional representation would give us a more fair reflection of the choices of the population.


I agree with PR. Judging from what I already knew and Walter's articles about how the current first-past-the-post system favours the incumbent government, it appears a much fairer system. One downside is that the lunatic fringe like the UK Independence Party, British National Party and maybe even the Monster Raving Loonies would get a say. I guess that's a price of democracy.

Quote:
2. Very consistent message - the state should provide more/better services, in particular Education and Health but (the honest bit) you have to pay more in taxes for that.


I also admire their honesty in being a pro-tax party. It sure beats stealth taxes.

Quote:
3. Pro-European


Me too. I can't see what the problem with being in Europe is. Some say it dillutes the national identity, but I'm sure that if the rest of Europe can manage, so can we.

Walter, Nimh, Francis - do you feel any "less" German, Dutch or French for being more integrated in Europe than you were before?

Quote:
4. Most environmentally friendly (though it's always easier to be this in opposition than government)


True. Regulation and control of industry costs money.

Quote:
However, I have certain views which some would call right-wing but are certainly not represented by the Conservatives' appeal to the "little Englanders"/Daily Mail/Telegraph-reading middle classes:

For example, I believe that the provision of health services is fundamentally flawed by the fact that no profit motive operates and would therefore do away with the NHS, to be replaced by a compulsory insurance scheme to be provided through deduction at source for all employees (in the same way as PAYE income tax). For those unemployed or long-term sick/disabled, the government could pay for such care through social security.


Sounds like a sensible idea to me. Profits sharpen the mind. The general consensus in my industry (railway engineering) is that the railways are better value now than they were in the BR days. And that's after taking into account the various profit slices that are taken before cash invested filters down into actual work done.

Quote:
The balance of competence on economic issues with a value system that most closely represents current British interests, as I see them, is why I'd choose Labour.

KP


I just don't like Tony Blair. Gordon Brown is slightly better, but whenever I see the LidDem politicians, they simply look like an honest bunch. Perhaps that's too arbitrary, but it does for me!
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2005 08:04 am
nimh wrote:
...And even if you attach twice the value to the personal interest axis than to the national interest one, you'll just get:

Labour -4 and +8 makes +4
Conservative -17 and 0 makes -17
Liberal Democrat +28 and -8 makes +20
UK Independence Party +3 and -20 makes -17
Green +8 and -14 makes -6

Hey, the choice is obvious! (You think I should consider becoming a salesperson? Razz)


Well, you got me there, nimh! Nice work. Out of interest, have you tried a similar process for yourself?
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