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What’s up in London? Murder rate surpassed NY

 
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2018 02:06 pm
@maporsche,
I don’t teach them to bow and scrape at the feet of government.

They question, and when we studied “Letters From Birmingham Jail,” they connected that message to a wide variety of texts about oppressed people in this country, and I was proud as hell many of them were better equipped to analyze the bullshit spread out before them.

You would just have failed them if they didn’t fall in line with your opinion.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 12:33 am
@maporsche,
It is beginning to appear as if you have a personal obsession and/or vendetta for Lash. You really should take a few moments to examine your interaction with her and, in particular, this comment.

The topic of this thread is very interesting in and of itself and actually quite relevant to what is going on (in part) in America.

I would imagine that most Americans who happened upon this report were surprised by it. Some, no doubt, were alarmed and perhaps concerned. To paraphrase Lou Reed, there are even some evil mothers who will tell you that life is a bit cheerier now that they heard this news.

London (and the UK overall) is renown (and in some cases revered) among Americans for it's very strict (by comparison) gun laws. Americans who have any interest in the world at large and are educated at least enough to know that England was not our adversary in the Civil War, are probably familiar with the fact that the majority of "bobbies" walking beats in London do not carry guns. It would be comforting to know that college students are also aware that, in fact, approx 20% of London police do indeed carry firearms and the ones they carry are generally of a much higher firepower than a NYC cop's standard issue revolver because this would be an indication that they know more about other nations and cultures than "Believe It or Not" facts. Based on what I've read and heard about the average college student's knowledge of world and American history, I'll settle for campus kids knowing that it was the British we fought during the Revolutionary War and not the Russians, the Mexicans of Southern rebels. But I digress...

If all you know about the UK is that they still have a Queen, they like tea, they call soccer football, and their police don't carry guns, the chances are this story will surprise you. Ignorance is not the same thing as stupidity and I'm relatively confident that even people who couldn't tell us any more about the UK than what I've enumerated can figure out that if gun ownership is heavily restricted and 80% or more of the cops don't have the need to carry firearms while on duty, the crime rate and the nature of crime there must be different from what they are here.

Reading of London's dubious achievement, one might feel sorry for Londoners, or somehow guilty about America's culture of violence infecting our European friends. One might also feel a bit of schadenfreude over the plight of a city of people who, overall, feel rather smug and superior to Yanks living in NYC and other major American cities because of relative crime rates and a few other things. Or, if one opposes the idea of the US adopting UK or Australian gun laws, one might feel vindicated by this development:

"See?" one might exclaim "Despite their strict gun laws, they caught up to and surpassed New York City's murder rate! New York City! Soon they'll be leaving Chicago in the dust!"

Now, our British friends here (As well as the ever helpful Walter) have been quick to point out (and correctly) that London beat NYC for most murders in only one single month: February 2018, and that feat could easily be a result of nothing more than (bad) luck. Regardless, they tell us, one month out of many years is not a trend and anyone who suggests otherwise is mistaken (and if American, all too typically an ignorant fool who is too busy crowing about winning WWII and expecting the UK to kiss Uncle Sam's butt to bother to examine the facts before jumping to conclusions that advance obnoxious Yank chauvinism!)

But I continue to digress...

Satire aside, the story is surprising and most surprises are interesting. Considering the media's current focus on gun control and the people who advocate increasing restrictions, the story is quite relevant, and even more so when one reads that assaults with knives seem to be on the rise in the UK and beyond the confines of a single month. No doubt you have heard or read the argument that violence, not guns are America's problem and that if our cities are rid of firearms, the violent will turn to other weapons...like knives. See? Interesting and relevant.

Finally, the title of this thread is "What's up in London? Murder rate surpassed NY." and it was started by Lash herself. Note that she didn't introduce it to batham's Trump Sucks thread or edgar's Democrats Suck thread. She created a separate thread for discussion of the interesting and relevant story and, aside from your contributions, that's what she has gotten.

Now you are advancing the, frankly, bizarre argument that she created the thread as some sort of diversion. Diversion from what? Is she in some way compelled to discuss only the topics you wish her to? Are you, for some reason miffed that she didn't remain rooted in the Trump Sucks or Democrats Suck threads? And if so, why? It can't be that you want to keep an eye on her and if she escapes those two threads and starts one of her own it makes it more difficult for you to keep track of her whereabouts on A2K. It can't be...can it?

I'm sure you will have an explanation that will put me in my place for suggesting such nonsense, and I look forward to reading it.

Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 02:37 am
Maporsche!! Here am I again, talking about London!!!

These kids don’t seem like gang material. It seems like something else is driving this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/latest-teenager-killed-in-london-stabbing-named-as-israel-ogunsola-11317717

Israel Ogunsola is said to have approached police suffering from knife wounds shortly before 8pm on Wednesday following the attack.

Officers rushed to his aid in Link Street, in the east London borough.

Paramedics and staff from the London Air Ambulance attempted to save his life but he was pronounced dead at the scene less than half an hour later.

The 17-year-old victim has been named locally as Tanesha

Two 17-year-olds have been arrested on suspicion of murdering Mr Ogunsola.

It has emerged the victim was Facebook friends with Tanesha Melbourne, a 17-year-old who was shot in a drive-by shooting on Monday in Tottenham.

Just 30 minutes later, 16-year-old Amaan Shakoor was shot in the face in Walthamstow.

A spate of knife and gun deaths has prompted fears London's murder rate for 2018 will surge above that for last year.

Meanwhile, two people are in hospital following reports of a stabbing in Mile End, east London.

:: 'More police won't stop spate of killings'

Israel Ogunsola's father, Dele, said his son had been training to become a computer programmer and was "thoughtful" and "joyous".

He has demanded the "bloodshed must stop", saying Israel was just cycling to meet friends when he was attacked.

He told the Evening Standard: "London's streets are so dangerous. Young people are being slaughtered every day. If it means bringing back more stop and search, then so be it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 04:36 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
These kids don’t seem like gang material. It seems like something else is driving this.
No-one ever said that all victims were killed gang-related.

If someone says, they are gang-related, it will have the same meaning as your opinion: those knife crimes happened justt a couple of hours ago.
Quote:
[...]
Timeline of the seven stabbings
- 17:30 Poplar - boy, 15
- 18:06 Mile End - two boys aged 15 (serious injuries) and one aged 16 (minor injuries, since arrested)
- 18:57 Newham - boy, 13 (critical injuries)
- 19:05 Ealing Broadway - boy in his late teens
- 22:05 Herne Hill - man in his 40s
[...]
On Wednesday, 18-year-old Israel Ogunsola was stabbed to death in Link Street, Hackney.

On Monday, 17-year-old Tanesha Melbourne was killed in a drive-by shooting.
[...]
Speaking to BBC Newsbeat near to where the schoolgirl died, a young man known only as Brandon urged his peers to "get out" of gangs.

Brandon, who used to "chill out" with many gang members in the area, said: "One day I just thought, what am I really doing here?

"People are dying that are not even in gangs. I don't know what it is, if they getting killed (by) accident, or mistaken identity, and it's just making me think, you gonna be next.
[...]
Officers need help from other organisations to stop the UK from becoming a "police state", the vice chairman of the Police Federation told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

Che Donald said the recent spike in violent crime had led to questions "that the police can't answer on their own".

He said London must learn from the joined up approach taken by Glasgow more than a decade ago, where knife crime was treated as a public health problem.
BBC

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 04:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Actually,Metropolitan police commissioner Cressida Dick, had made a private visit to Glasgow in February to learn more about the VRU's work.

Met police chief to visit Scotland for ideas to reduce knife crime
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 05:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Scotland Yard has held an emergency meeting with community groups and youth workers as violent crime in London threatened to become a political crisis.

Police chiefs want to develop a mobilisation plan to tackle knife and gun violence in the city. This week two teenagers were shot dead and there were a number of stabbings.

The invite to the meeting at the Metropolitan police headquarters at New Scotland Yard on Friday morning said “London is currently experiencing an exceptionally high level of gun and knife crime.

It added: “It is important that our response is fully informed by community concerns and any community tensions are rapidly identified, heard and responded to.”

Among those attending the meeting were the Labour MP for Tottenham, David Lammy, and Nicola Calica-Myall, an activist against knife crime whose own son was stabbed 37 times when he was just 17 and survived.
[...]
But with growing calls for politicians to set out substantial plans to address the crisis, concerns remained that national and London leaders had fallen short.

The Met police commissioner, Cressida Dick, has been criticised for making no public statement on the subject this week until Thursday, while the Home Office, the Met and the mayor of London all declined interview requests from Radio 4’s Today programme on Friday morning.


As of now (12.00 local time) a couple of youths (between three and five youth gang members, numbers differ in various media) have been arrested on suspicion of grievous bodily harm in connection with those latest attacks.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 06:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Gang members have reportedly boasted about the fatal shooting of teenager Tanesha Melbourne in a series of social media posts. (Tanesha Melbourne was caught by chance in the middle of a postcode war between rival gangs in Tottenham, north London, earlier this week.)
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:12 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It is beginning to appear as if you have a personal obsession and/or vendetta for Lash. You really should take a few moments to examine your interaction with her and, in particular, this comment.


You’re not wrong Finn. I have found that I have a very low tolerance for her venal, counter-productive, asinine attack from the left tactics. The level of idiocy that gets one to sit at home and not vote or to vote for ******* Jill Stein coupled with the holier-than-thou pompous attitude deserves scorn and mocking.

Your post has helped me realize that it’s really just a waste of my time though and I’ll do my best to ignore the moronic comments spewing from her keyboard.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:22 am
@maporsche,
Aw. I’ll miss you.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:34 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Aw. I’ll miss you.
I miss the response you posted earlier.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It was redundant.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:49 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Aw. I’ll miss you.


I said I'll try to ignore you, not saying it will be successful all the time.

In your honor though, I just pledged $300 to the DCCC for the year. You're welcome.

https://i.imgur.com/cMx6VXq.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:50 am
@Lash,
But very interesting regarding your opinion ...
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 12:03 pm
@maporsche,
Give them more. I can envision your money burning. More.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 12:11 pm
@Lash,
More good news for you. I had to put my occupation/employer when I donated so this will count as a donation from the Banking industry giving you more to bitch about later on.

Personally I’m expecting at least 2 politicians in my personal pocket with this donation.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 12:24 pm
Quote:
A senior Scotland Yard officer has said radical “societal change” is needed to stem a rising tide of homicides after detectives arrested a man on suspicion of the murder of a teenage girl that brought national attention to London’s violent crime crisis.

DCS Michael Gallagher, the head of the Metropolitan police’s organised crime command and former lead on knife crime, said action was needed from government, parents and communities as Britain’s largest force could not arrest its way out of the problem.
[...]
On Friday, as Scotland Yard convened an emergency meeting with community groups to discuss the killings, police hunting those behind the shooting of 17-year-old Tanesha Melbourne-Blake arrested a suspect.

The teenager, who was killed in Tottenham on Monday, is increasingly believed to have been an innocent bystander hit outside her boyfriend’s house by a gunman who opened fire as part of a gang feud fuelled by taunts on social media.
[...]
A meeting at the Met’s headquarters was held on Friday morning with community groups. One source said people left more angry than when they arrived and had no idea what the force was planning to do.

Gallagher said more focus was needed on the needs of the young, with mostly young men being killed and doing the killing. “What we need is a societal change where young people, as perpetrators and victims, feel valued and protected,” he said. “It is beyond the police. We cannot prosecute our way out of this.

The source said: “From the meeting, it doesn’t seem the Met have a grip on what’s going on. There was a lot of anger.”

Nicola Calica-Myall, an activist against knife crime whose son was stabbed 37 times aged 17 but survived, was at the meeting. “It’s important to know that our fears as a community are being recognised and things are in place,” she said. “It’s everybody’s problem and more Londoners need to recognise this situation may not go away any time soon.”

Police chiefs want to develop a “mobilisation plan” to tackle violent crime.

One senior Met source said the sustained rise in killings and violent crime had come as a surprise and the causes for the change were unclear. London recorded more killings in February and March in London than New York, which was once a byword for out of control violent crime.
[...]
Dick said the Met was confident it would bring people to justice. “In the five cases in the last week that will be on your mind, we have arrested in all but one,” she said. “I anticipate that we will have further arrests, and indeed charges.”
... ... ...
The Guardian
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 01:00 pm
Quote:
Gallagher said more focus was needed on the needs of the young, with mostly young men being killed and doing the killing. “What we need is a societal change where young people, as perpetrators and victims, feel valued and protected,” he said. “It is beyond the police. We cannot prosecute our way out of this.


If that is not a bunch of crap. London has its societal change, it is called Islam.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 01:10 pm
@coldjoint,
Do you think ‘societal change’ is their euphemism for an influx of Islamic or other types of people who seem more prone to violence, or do they mean something else by societal change.

Do we know ethnic backgrounds and religions of perpetrators?
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 01:12 pm
@maporsche,
Checking donation amounts, you’ll have to up the ante significantly.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2018 01:22 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Do we know ethnic backgrounds and religions of perpetrators?
I'm sure that religion is seldom if ever named in any police report in the UK. (Human Rights Act 1998)

 

 
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