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What’s up in London? Murder rate surpassed NY

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 08:49 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
It was reported because the phenomenon was interesting
It was first published by the Sunday Times in April. But even thaat report noted that London is safer, and that it just happened in February and March.

The tally of 290 New York murders in 2017 – while still much higher than London’s corresponding total – has been hailed in America as a hugely encouraging breakthrough. So perhaps there's another reason why the Times report had been widely re-published in a shortened version.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 08:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You seem like a lawyer, hired to minimize the event, rather than just note it occurred and get on with your life.

Who are you working for?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 08:53 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Moped-enabled crime has plummeted by 36 per cent in the capital year-on-year since the methods were rolled out.
[...]
The rise is linked to a wider uptick in violence nationwide, seeing a record number of knife crimes recorded in the year to June, and children as young as nine have been found carrying weapons.
The Independent
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 08:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
So perhaps there's another reason why the Times report had been widely re-published in a shortened version.


Perhaps, indeed....
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 09:01 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
just note it occurred and get on with your life.
Hello? You started this thread, but didn't post much.

I'll stop posting here now, and leave the thread to your selective interpretation of sources.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 09:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Because people who hide their heads in the sand about the amount of school shootings and huge homicide rate in America compared to Europe need to point their fingers at something else as a distraction.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 09:57 am
@izzythepush,
Nope. I’ve done as much to stop school shootings as everyone else here has. I can still talk about other things. You do.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 10:19 am
@Lash,
Have you ****. The changes you've advocated are cosmetic and skirt the real issue. Controlling guns.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 10:25 am
@izzythepush,
Who here has controlled US guns more than me? ****. (Just thought I should throw that in.)
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 11:04 am
@Lash,
All those other American posters who've spoken out against the NRA.

Btw, one of the main reasons for a rise in crime over here, along with traffic accidents which had been going down year on year, is the huge cut in the policing budget by the Tories.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 11:07 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

****. (Just thought I should throw that in.)


Looks like it, you need to put in in a sentence, make it part of your everyday speech, like this.


Who the **** here has controlled US guns more than me?

See.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 03:09 pm
@izzythepush,
I’ve spoken out against the NRA.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2018 03:10 pm
@izzythepush,
I’ll try it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2018 12:46 pm
@Lash,
Don't fear failure: Glasgow's advice for London knife crime unit
Quote:
Team who successfully reduced stabbing deaths in the Scottish city share their experiences

London’s new knife crime agency must look beyond partisan pressures, prioritise local knowledge, and above all be allowed the freedom to fail, according to the team responsible for Glasgow’s pioneering Violence Reduction Unit (VRU).

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, in September unveiled plans for a dedicated unit based on the Glasgow model. Set up in 2005, the VRU treated violence as a public health issue and dramatically reduced stabbing deaths while unravelling the deeply rooted gang culture in a city which little more than a decade ago had the second highest murder rate in western Europe.

As London reaches the end of another brutal year, which has seen 15 children and teenagers killed in knife attacks, the Damilola Taylor Trust has invited the co-founders of Glasgow’s VRU, Karyn McCluskey and John Carnochan, and its current director, Niven Rennie, to deliver the charity’s annual memorial lecture on 7 December in London.

All three are keenly aware of the scale of the task facing Khan’s embryonic unit, and are adamant that their intention is to share experience rather than impose their template on a far bigger and more diverse city. They are also convinced that the dislocating effects of poverty, exclusion and childhood trauma are universal.

Carnochan says: “It’s too trite to say, ‘Of course this will work because the young men in London are exactly the same as the young men in Glasgow, except they’re mostly young black men’.”

The former Det Ch Supt highlights two key contextual differences to his own experience of setting up the Scottish VRU, which is directly funded by the Holyrood government and has an arms-length relationship with Police Scotland.

“First there’s the relationship between the police and the community: not that we had a lot of cheerleaders in Easterhouse (one of Glasgow’s most deprived areas, where gang violence was rife), but there wasn’t that same inter-generational mistrust of the police,” he says.

The fracture in London will will take years to repair, he says, and requires significant personnel investment, involving community officers embedded long-term in local areas, and campus police officers in schools “so that young people start to see that cops are not just the ones to stop them and move them on but they are actually there to help them”.

Both Carnochan and McCluskey acknowledge the impact of austerity on police numbers and youth services in London, while campaigners have told the Guardian they believe the surge in knife attacks – with this year set to be the worst in a decade for the number of young people in England and Wales killed by blades – is a direct result of budget cuts.

The intensity of public, political and media scrutiny around knife crime in London is also critical, Carnochan adds. “When we started VRU it didn’t seem anyone was that bothered, whereas in London everyone’s talking about it. That means everyone has a solution and there are so many groups that say ‘this is what you must do’. But you need to start mapping what is working in each community. That’s a challenge for everyone who works in the sector to hang their egos up.”

McCluskey insists that one of the main routes to success8.[ for Glasgow’s VRU was that “we were allowed to fail at first, because the media weren’t all over us”.
[... ... ...]
McCluskey, who has worked in London and empathises with the “overwhelmingly complex” nature of the challenge, adds that the differences between deprived communities can be exaggerated.

“People will say, ‘But you never dealt with this [BME] community in Glasgow’, but at the end of the day everybody wants to feel safe, they want to have a roof over their head and they want to feel hope. I’ve never met anyone who said those three things didn’t matter to them, and that’s what we tried to do in the Violence Reduction Unit, tried to think about the things that we share.”

This basic human need to feel safe is recognised by Gary Trowsdale, a community activist who is organising the Damilola Taylor Trust event. Last week, Trowsdale attended a residents’ meeting in Tulse Hill, south London, where two teenage girls spoke about the impact of a recent stabbing on their estate.

“Through their tears they spoke of the fear and hopelessness of living on the estate. They said, ‘Our friends are not gangsters, they are scared young people who just want something to do’.”

From Glasgow, Carnochan echoes their frustration. “Everybody seems to know what the answer is – yes, it’s to do with gangs, county lines, territory – but every young black man in London is not carrying a knife or in a gang and we’re missing the point if we start to think like that.”
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2018 01:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Knife and weapon possession offences at highest level in eight years in England and Wales, new figures show
Quote:
A fifth of the knife crime offences being punished in England and Wales are being committed by children, new figures have shown as offences stand at an eight-year high.
[...]
Separate figures on the crimes recorded by police show knife crime at a record level, with almost 33,000 incidents in the year to June and 55 per cent resulting in a charge or caution.
... ... ...

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2018 08:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Opinion by Sarah Jones MP, chair of the all-party parliamentary group on knife crime
Scotland is showing how to win the fight against knife crime[...]
Today we still try to understand and deal with violence after it occurs. We still judge those involved as innately bad people, and feel no need for deeper understanding. Of course we need to police and punish violent crime and do so robustly. No one is disputing that. And there is no disputing that enforcement is suffering due to police cuts, which must be reversed. But preventing violence and policing it are not mutually exclusive.

We must recognise, too, that the social conditions – poverty, inequality, low social mobility – that make certain communities higher risk are often the result of political decisions made by government. We have a responsibility as politicians to step up and fight that.

It’s not been easy to get to this point. Yesterday’s debate came after relentless campaigning from charities, campaigners and cross-party groups such as the all-party parliamentary group on knife crime and the youth violence commission.

In London and the West Midlands, public health approaches are taking hold. But a national crisis such as this also requires a national response. Young people are dying in towns and cities across the land and we need change quickly.
[...]
... We’re on course for the worst year for young knife deaths in more than a decade. ... violence is preventable, not inevitable.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2018 01:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
There have been 130 homicides in London so far this year. The BBC has created an interactive map showing the location of each homicide, the date it occurred and the cause of death.

https://i.imgur.com/jUtCWwMl.jpg

>London Killings: All the Victims of 2018< also includes a pen portrait of all 130 of the victims.

You can compare that map with the one about medieval London I mentioned and linked earlier.
And compare it - since the original topic here was about it - with the gun violence in the USA resp New York with the >Atlas of American Gun Violence<. (That atlas maps five years of American gun violence, during which time there has been over 150,000 shootings.)
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2018 08:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Are those stabbing deaths any less dead because a gun wasn't used?

Or are they just as dead as they would be if they'd been killed with a gun?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2018 08:27 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
The premise of this pathetic thread is that the murder rate is higher in London than in New York. Walter demonstrates that that is not true--but I guess that does not fit Lash's political narrative, so now she's babbling about knife crime.
It seems to me that people who are killed with knives are just as dead as people who are killed with guns.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2018 02:11 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Maybe because the intent of the thread was to talk about anything else besides the Frederic Douglass shooting that happened just a couple weeks before this thread began.
You remember that one right? Protests and such lasted for months.
Those whiny brats were no big deal. Their silly little temper tantrums were easily ignored.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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