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What’s up in London? Murder rate surpassed NY

 
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 04:42 am
@centrox,
More to the point, NY and London are remarkably comparable in population, law enforcement budgets and number of personnel, etc — and the wide disparity of murders, rapes, robberies, etc happening in London is staggering. I imagine the high chances of being a victim of crime in London is at the forefront of concern every time a Londoner leaves the house.

The defensive response here is sort of stunning.

The article blames how law enforcement is used.

I wonder if UK residents agree with that assessment.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 04:43 am
@centrox,
Yes, that’s very clearly the focus of the article. Care to speak to what’s happening in London?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 04:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I haven’t ‘lost interest’ in either of those threads. I do independent reading on both subjects, and peek in on the threads sporadically.

You’ve done a great job cataloguing articles on both of those threads.

I’m still watching outcomes.

Funny that you think my decreased posting in other threads has any place in this conversation. How odd.

Despite my decreased participation in other threads, London is still suffering a serious crime issue. Do you have any ideas as to why?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 04:54 am
@centrox,
Couldn’t help but notice your deployment of the term “armchair pundit from the United States”. Surely, you have noticed the legion of armchair pundits from the UK and Canada.

Every wagging tongue on this site is an armchair pundit—just making sure we all recognize each other.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  4  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 04:55 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Yes, that’s very clearly the focus of the article. Care to speak to what’s happening in London?

New York's crime rate is at the lowest level since the 1950s, so arguably the London rate going up has crossed over NY's rate coming down. There has been an increase, sure, in knife crime in the London area, and my feeling is that the correct way to tackle it is the same way that NY tackled theirs, that is, more aggressive policing. The bottom line, as NY police showed, is tha we need increased arrest rates and more police presence on the streets, brought about if necessary by greater recruitment of officers.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 04:59 am
@centrox,
I agree. Hope the powers that be in London will make the change.

Wonder what drove the laxity in policing.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:09 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Funny that you think my decreased posting in other threads has any place in this conversation. How odd.
Well, I just thought that is this one of those - what I think - "spontaneous ideas" to create a thread.

Lash wrote:
London is still suffering a serious crime issue. Do you have any ideas as to why?
Not just London.

However, this is more about knife crime in my opinion, since other serious crime issue have been going down.
In London, it certainly is partly reasoned in the reactions of gangs ("postcode wars").
I have not enough background informations about the reason(s) why crimes are done with knives in London (and England and Wales).
Here, in Germany, more and more young people and adolescents carry knives with them and threaten to use them in disputes. And use them.
But adults are doing it now, too - copycat crimes, perhaps mainly due to social media.

I think, we had had something that is nowadays called "knive crime" in the past as well. But that wasn't reported nor was it considered to be something serious ... until the 70's. (When I was working as an probation officer in the 80's, I was "threatened" twice with a knife [one had an illegal blade length, the other was completely illegal.])
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:12 am
The focus is on 10 - 21 year olds, and detached policing methods.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-43610936

A spike in violent crime in London saw more murders committed in the city in February and March than there were in New York, figures show.

So far in 2018, the Met Police has investigated 46 murders, compared with 50 in the US city.

But, while New York's murder rate decreased from the end of January, London's rose markedly from that point.

Ex-Met Police Ch Supt Leroy Logan says it is proof that "London's violent traits have become a virus".

Statistics from the New York Police Department (NYPD) and the Metropolitan Police, reported in the Sunday Times and obtained by the BBC, highlight narrowing murder rates between the two cities, which have similar population sizes.

City Hall says it is "deeply concerned" by knife crime in the capital, but, along with the Met Police, insists London "remains one of the safest [cities] in the world".

London/New York murders
In January, the Met investigated eight murders whereas the NYPD looked into 18 killings
By February, the NYPD's figures had dropped to 11, while London's rose to 15
In March, 22 murders were investigated in London while 21 inquiries were launched in New York
The Met said it was "concerned at the increase in murders in London".

"One murder is one too many, and we are working hard with our partners to understand the increase and what we can all do to prevent these tragedies from happening in the first place," a spokesman said.

However, it is a murder rate that has left Mr Logan feeling "absolutely devastated".

Leroy Logan MBE
Image caption Former Ch Supt Leroy Logan retired from the Met Police in 2013 after 30 years' service
"I cannot understand how things have gotten out of hand," he said.

"We have seen the virus of violence spreading. It is endemic in so many different parts of societies.

"It can only be dealt with in a holistic manner, because it is so holistic in its impact.

"Police can't just arrest or stop and search their way out of this problem; it has to be done in partnership with the communities."

Youth club leader describes an ‘increasing level of violence’ amongst teenagers.
Image caption Youth club leader describes an ‘increasing level of violence’ amongst teenagers.
The Met Police has launched 44 murder investigations in 2018, 31 of which have been as a result of stabbings.

The deaths of 47-year-old Laura Cecilia Navarrete De Figueira, from Twickenham, and her sons Claudio, 10, and Joaquin , seven, are part of the same Met Police murder investigation. She was found stabbed in London, while the boys were discovered dead, along with their father, at the foot of Birling Gap, in Sussex.

Croydon Central MP Sarah Jones, who chairs the all-party parliamentary group on knife crime, told the BBC's Today programme that London could learn from New York in how to reduce violent crime.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
One of the articles I linked stated that robbery and rape in London were higher than the murder numbers.

Looking through explanations and statistics to follow human behavior is fascinating.

I wonder if outlawing knife length is next...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:17 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Hope the powers that be in London will make the change.

Wonder what drove the laxity in policing.
Policing is done by Her Majesty's Government, not by a London local authority. (And for England and Wales.)
Rising violence, a creaking court and prison system seem to be the result of Conservative governing (and a quarrelling Labour opposition).
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Possibly. Thanks for a direction of research.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:23 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I wonder if outlawing knife length is next...
In England and Wales that started with the Offensive Weapons Act 1959 already. The Offensive Weapons Act 1996 was even stricter (I remember the discussions about 'doctor's knives').

Edit: I gave links about this earlier above.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:28 am
I’m late to this show. It appears that The Blame Game re London’s crime increases has been going on for a while.

I’ll bring related articles for anyone wanting to know more about recent policing / crime issues in London, England, Wales.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/25/soaring-crime-statistics-government-neglect-cuts-police

The mayor’s mea not culpa piece in The Guardian four months ago.

Soaring crime rates are an indictment of the government’s neglect
Sadiq Khan

Excerpt:

Violent offences are ripping communities apart yet ministers continue to cut police numbers and back-up services

The current government is hopelessly weak on crime, and even weaker on the causes of crime.

Recorded crime is rising across the country – in particular the most violent crimes like knife attacks. It has become a major national problem that the government can no longer ignore.

The latest official crime statistics, published today, reveal the terrible repercussions for our country. Between September 2016 and September 2017, recorded crime rose across England and Wales. Overall recorded crime increased by nearly 15% across England and Wales, and by nearly 5% in London. And knife crime – which is causing so much pain and suffering within our communities – rose by 21% nationwide, and a similar amount in London.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:32 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
The mayor’s mea not culpa piece in The Guardian four months ago.
Actually what is it in your opinion that Sadiq Khan could and should do more as the Mayor of London?
Quote:
The Mayor of London is responsible for setting policing and crime priorities for London and will hold the Met Police Commissioner to account and work with partners to ensure that crimes goes down and criminal justice outcomes are improved
Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime - for the Metropolitan Police Service
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:39 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Ex-Met Police Ch Supt Leroy Logan says it is proof that "London's violent traits have become a virus".

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/2/11/1423658049933/Leroy-Logan.jpg?w=140&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=040a741117da30e25dbb24308f75986d

If anyone knows what is wrong with London policing and how to fix it, it's Leroy Logan. His father was beaten up by cops for driving a truck while black, and his response? He quit his science postgraduate work and joined the police and rose to senior rank.
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:40 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I wonder if outlawing knife length is next...

It’s illegal to:

sell a knife to anyone under 18, unless it has a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less

carry a knife in public without good reason, unless it has a folding blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less

carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife

use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 05:47 am
@centrox,
In France, for instance, knives belong to the category D weapons, similar to the legislation in England and Wales, and Germany. In addition, however, French law provides that authorities may classify any knife as a prohibited item depending upon circumstances and the discretion of the police or judicial authorities.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 06:13 am
I guess it’s time to outlaw penises in Britain.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-london-reports-met-police-rise-crime-sexual-assault-a8225821.html%3famp

Rapes are skyrocketing.

London sees 20% rise in rape reports in a year, but police admit they 'don't understand' reason

'There is something going on with sexual offending in London that we don’t fully understand'
Lizzie Dearden Home Affairs Correspondent Friday 23 February 2018
Sergeant Kirsten Treasure, who worked in Croydon, south London, has been dismissed without notice
The Metropolitan Police said the rise could not be explained just by increased reporting and recording Getty.

The number of alleged rapes reported to police in London has risen by almost 20 per cent in a disturbing increase police are struggling to explain.

There were 7,613 reported rapes in the year to January, compared to 6,392 over the previous 12 months, according to figures collated by the Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPAC).

Sir Craig Mackey, deputy commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said the rise could not be accounted for simply by more victims feeling able to report abuse or better recording practices.

Police appeared to punish grooming gang victims, report says
Sexual offences committed in London hire cars and taxis surge in 2016
More people are being prosecuted for sexual offences than ever before
“It is not as simple as saying this is increased confidence,” he told the London Assembly’s police and come committee.

“Of course that plays a part, and faith in the process, but there is something going on with sexual offending in London that we don’t fully understand.

“We see the end of it but we don’t understand the causes.”

Joanne McCartney, the deputy mayor of London, told the meeting on Wednesday that Sir Craig’s statement was “the first time a senior officer has come to this committee and accepted that the increase in sexual violence may not just be about an increase in reporting and confidence”.

Susan Hall, a Conservative assembly member, called for police to measure the outcome of plans in place to combat violence against women and girls in the capital.

“Figures are really going in the wrong direction,” she added.

Scotland Yard has emphasised that the vast majority of rapes are carried out by attackers known to victims but the statistics emerged following a “stranger rape” in Shoreditch.
——————



0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 06:21 am
@centrox,
“London’s violent traits have become a virus.”

That seems more woo-woo than an observation of law enforcement.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Apr, 2018 06:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Scotland seems to be outside the trend of England and Wales' knife crime . In 2014/15, recorded crimes of handling an offensive weapon (which includes knives) fell to their lowest in 31 years, while the number of young people under the age of 19 convicted of carrying an offensive weapon fell 82% between 2006/7 and 2014/15.

In the USA, according to the FBI, 1,604 people were killed by "knives and cutting instruments" (374 were killed by "rifles in 2016). (Source)
 

 
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