What’s up in London? Murder rate surpassed NY

(It's from your quote.)

So what is your not-woo-woo view about it?

I noticed this. I’ve been looking into everything Scotland is doing differently. Bet there’s an answer in there somewhere.

At first, of course, there are different weapon (knife) laws in Scotland.

I’m gathering facts and comparisons. I don’t have an opinion yet.

But some hazy romantic adage about London’s violent proclivities is irresponsible and dodgy.

One narrative.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/membership/2017/dec/03/how-scotland-reduced-knife-deaths-among-young-people

The study concluded that Scotland was the most violent country in the developed world. Based on telephone interviews with crime victims conducted between 1991 and 2000, it found that excluding murder, Scots were almost three times as likely to be assaulted as Americans and 30 times more likely than the Japanese.

The VRU, which is directly funded by the Scottish government and has an arms-length relationship with Police Scotland, was later rolled out across Scotland. It has adopted a public health approach to knife crime, in which the police work with those in the health, education and social work sectors to address the problem. The results so far have been dramatic.

Of the 35 children and teenagers who have been killed with knives in Britain so far this year, not one has been in Scotland. By contrast, in England and Wales, 2017 looks set to become the worst year for deaths of young people by knives in nearly a decade, according to figures revealed by the Guardian’s Beyond the blade project, which aims to show the true picture of knife deaths among children and teenagers in the UK.

Lash, you are being quite aggressive about this. Why?

Perhaps the underlying issue here is human nature and the effectiveness (or absence of) social and cultural influences that might limit its excesses. It appears here that, when guns are removed from circulation, knives are substituted. Moreover, as you suggest, laws prohibiting carrying them are somewhat ineffective.

You can't "remove" what was never there. Britain has not suddenly taken away people's right to carry guns around or possess them. These have always been very tightly regulated.

Facts about and comparisons to what?

I think especially the latter to be quite difficult.
Scotland has different criminal laws to England and Wales. The population (and culture) is different, in many aspects.

To compare Scotland/England and Wales with countries with a different legal system (civil [aka Roman law) and common law systems) doesn't make it easier.

Exactly! There are cultural and legal differences between Scotland, Wales, England, NY—and investigating those differences related to variations in crime rates, I think, can be illuminating.

Just to make it easier for you: English law is the legal system of England and Wales.

This is my m.o.

I read around a bit, and when I want to know more (Brexit, Catalonia, etc), I start a thread and immediately bring a variety of articles from different sources, and ask for opinions from people who may have something to add.

I saw a lot of emotion among Brits around Brexit. I was personally sad for Lordy. And, yes, I cop completely to coming down on the general side of more personal freedom for individuals.

You provided an invaluable perspective re Catalonia, and I saw that topic, in my opinion, devolve from thoughtful conversation (you, initially) to relentlessly predictable pro- and anti-EU posturing (all of us, eventually).

It’s happening again.

Imagine if Americans here were as thin-skinned to criticism. Europeans, on the main, seem unable to tolerate anything that may seem to possibly lend itself as a precursor to the category of criticism.

Why are you bothered by this thread and my participation? What do you deem as aggressive behavior on my part?

But, Scotland?

Yes, of course ( 1707, the Treaty of Union)
(Nevertheless, a case which has been heard in a court in Scotland can still be referred to the Supreme Court of the UK.)

DW has just published a kind of summary of the discussion here in Germany:
Youth knifing spate alarms German police unions

Thanks!

The United Kingdom, judicially, consists of three jurisdictions: England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. There are important differences between Scots law, English law and Northern Irish law in areas such as property law, criminal law, trust law, inheritance law, evidence law and family law while there are greater similarities in areas of national interest such as commercial law, consumer rights, taxation, employment law and health and safety regulations.

Yeah, well there are are certain British individuals that love pontificating about everything over here, stateside. (not saying it's you). It's an open board and folks can post about other nations if they so choose and hopefully it gets done in a polite and dignified manner.

Obviously, they need some common sense knife regulations.

I'm an edged weapons collector and so I subscribe to a number of trade zines. I think I recall reading that it has ended, but for some period of time, there was a program in the UK in which citizens were encouraged to surrender weapons of any and all kinds. Apparently, they set up large secure containers on the streets in which the average Nigel could deposit a weapon he no longer wished to keep. At least one of them (and probably all of them) was surfaced with a cheery poster that read, in part, "Only cowards carry knives!"

It had the UK knife community up in arms (no pun intended), and as I wrote, I believe the government modified the propaganda messaging being used. (If any of this is inaccurate, we can, I'm sure, count on izzy, centrox and perhaps even Walter to swoop in and correct me)

The message was/is, of course, ridiculously insulting. Unlike guns, knives actually have utilities beyond injuring or killing people and animals. The notion that someone carrying a knife for any possible use is a coward is the sort of thing only a snowflake liberal man who wears footy pjs to bed could dream up.

If knives are increasingly being used in crimes in London, it's only a further demonstration of the ineffectual nature of weapon regulations as respects the criminal class.

It is illegal in London (and the rest of the UK) to carry a knife with a blade that is 3 inches or longer and/or which can be held in an open blade position by means of a locking mechanism.

The first bit makes some sense because while anyone with proper training could still kill someone with a knife that has a blade less than 3 inches in length, it would take precision and involve slicing more than stabbing. A person can bleed out pretty quickly if the right artery is cut, but again that takes skill and training. A fair number of deep lacerations that don't involve a major artery will still do the trick, but that would presume the wielder of the knife had sufficient, uninterrupted time to make the numerous cuts. Obviously not as lethal as a gun.

If people are being stabbed to death in London it is likely the killers are wielding larger knives than are legal to carry concealed. A bowie knife with a blade of 6 inches or longer would easily kill if the wielder was someone of at least average strength and not blind. Now, of course, it is illegal to walk around London with such an edged weapon concealed on your body and probably just as illegal to walk around with one unconcealed in your hand, but then criminals who are intent on robbing and/or killing people don't much care about government regulations...even in the UK!

The second bit of the regulation that prohibits the carrying of knives which have a blade locking mechanism makes no sense at all. The locking mechanism was included in pocketknife design for reason's of safety, not increased lethality. It prevents the blade from accidentally closing on the user's finger. What could possibly be the reasoning behind this regulation? Are they hoping the blade of a knife-wielding attacker will accidentally close and sever one of his fingers? Whatever it is, it can't be worth chucking away an important safety feature that would protect people who use knives on a daily basis for perfectly legal purposes.

I wonder if walking sticks have been outlawed in London. For a very long time, they were carried by British gentlemen for personal protection as much as anything else. I also happen to collect these and I can tell you that I have quite a few with heavy, solid brass grips that could easily crack someone's skull Do only cowards carry walking sticks?

You don't have to be a secret agent to be able to seriously injure someone with any one of a great variety of articles commonly found around a home or office. The nature and intent of the person using a given instrument are far more important factors in whether or not someone is harmed by one that it's length or the manner in which it opens or closes.

BINGO! We have a winner!