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Does Religion Have a Place in the Future of Humankind?

 
 
mesquite
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:38 pm
c.i., well in these parts we have stones in place of lawns, and even if you don't place them there, they seem to just materialize. Desert areas are kind of like that. Probably why stoning was a popular form of discipline back then.
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SCoates
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:41 pm
We don't have any sizable stones, just lots of little pebbles and things.

So stoning wouldn't be fatal. Maybe back in bible times they just used pebbles, and it was a very survivable thing. That theory proves the bible is true.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:42 pm
I've been to Egypt and Jordan, and there seems to be stones all over the place. At the archaeological sites, we're asked not to pick up the stones... so even with the god rules, they're shet out of luck.
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Algis Kemezys
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:45 pm
We are just so wired to religion that it is pretty hard to cut the string but in the near future as christianity becomes exposed and other factors in our creation become apparent then and there will be a critial time for the human race when all that you thought was one supreame god and we were merely mmanipulated DNA specifically tailored.
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Algis Kemezys
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:46 pm
And so on and so forth
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:49 pm
Algis, How many times must I remind you to lay off the strong stuff? Your repeating yourself again...
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SCoates
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:49 pm
I don't believe religion is something that ever will, or can be dispelled. Only certain beliefs will be disproven, and new ones will replace them. Religion is adaptable to facts.

Um... notably though, that adaptability is not always resorted to.
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mesquite
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:49 pm
Not even close SCoates, you see it is still practiced today in some places.

Quote:
What happens in Stoning?
In stoning to death, the victims's hands are tied behind their backs and their bodies are put in a cloth sack. Then, this human "package" is buried in a hole, with only the victims heads showing above the ground. If its a woman, she is buried upto her shoulders. This is to give her an seemingly equal (but nonetheless impossible) chance to escape recognizing her lesser physical strength.
After the hapless individual has been secured in the hole, people start chanting "Allah hu Akbar" (meaning, God is great), and throw palm sized stones at the head of the victim from a certain distance (a circle is drawn).
The stones are thrown until the person dies or until he/she escapes out of the hole and crosses the circle. Escaping is impossible, given that the individual's hands are tied behind their backs and they are buried in a hole upto their necks or shoulders (in the case of males and females respectively).
Naturally, the procedure is extremely barbaric and bloody.

Video of Stoning to Death
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:50 pm
"Religion is adaptable - in spite of facts to the contrary."
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SCoates
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 07:53 pm
Well, I said it's adaptability is not often resorted to. But the fact is, if it were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Adam and Eve never existed, then that doctrine would simply be changed before it was abandoned. Of course, there are those who will never abandone any belief.

Mesquite, I know they really happened, I was just trying to be possitive. Smile
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mesquite
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 08:01 pm
SCoates wrote:
I don't believe religion is something that ever will, or can be dispelled. Only certain beliefs will be disproven, and new ones will replace them. Religion is adaptable to facts.

Um... notably though, that adaptability is not always resorted to.

As was the point of my question to this wayward youngster. The website thunder provided mentioned numerous times how the Quran and Islam reinforced and validated the Bible. Eyes wide shut.
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SCoates
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 08:07 pm
I guess my point was that religion is simply to resilient to ever die off completely.
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mesquite
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 10:38 pm
SCoates wrote:
Mesquite, I know they really happened, I was just trying to be possitive. Smile


It is not just that it really happened. It is still happening. When you have text books that are frozen in time, adaptability becomes difficult to achieve. Parts will be disregarded by some but not all. Right now there is a resurgence of fundamentalism and they are gaining political power. They are dangerous.

Mark Twain wrote:
During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for eight hundred years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood.

Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry. Who discovered that there was no such thing as a witch -- the priest, the parson? No, these never discover anything. At Salem, the parson clung pathetically to his witch text after the laity had abandoned it in remorse and tears for the crimes and cruelties it has persuaded them to do. The parson wanted more blood, more shame, more brutalities; it was the unconsecrated laity that stayed his hand. In Scotland the parson killed the witch after the magistrate had pronounced her innocent; and when the merciful legislature proposed to sweep the hideous laws against witches from the statute book, it was the parson who came imploring, with tears and imprecations, that they be suffered to stand.

There are no witches. The witch text remains; only the practice has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the texts that authorized them remain.

It is not well worthy of note that of all the multitude of texts through which man has driven his annihilating pen he has never once made the mistake of obliterating a good and useful one? It does certainly seem to suggest that if man continues in the direction of enlightenment, his religious practice may, in the end, attain some semblance of human decency.

Bible Teaching and Religious Practice.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 11:42 pm
mesquite, Humans rarely learn from lessons learned in the past by others. They must learn by personal experience - and then some. That's the reason why the saying "history repeats itself" is a truism and is so popular.
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Eorl
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2005 02:08 am
Great quote mesquite, thankyou.
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thunder runner32
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2005 06:49 am
I believe, though I could be wrong, that we don't stone people anymore because we have adapted a little more sophisticated way of justice (that's the societal view) As far as witches and that sort of thing go, when Jesus came, a lot of things changed, an old mind-set was replaced with one of forgiveness and of understanding of others. We try now to help people, not just stone them when they do a wrong.
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Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2005 07:55 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
I believe, though I could be wrong, that we don't stone people anymore because we have adapted a little more sophisticated way of justice (that's the societal view) As far as witches and that sort of thing go, when Jesus came, a lot of things changed, an old mind-set was replaced with one of forgiveness and of understanding of others. We try now to help people, not just stone them when they do a wrong.


Jesus didn't come to change anything...and if anything did in fact change...it changed despite his intentions that it not change. In fact, it changed despite his INSISTENCE that it not change. (Read Matthew 5:17)

So...if we do now forgive, understand, and help people rather than stone them...perhaps you will be so kind as to point out where the god of the Bible told us that is the way we ought to act.

Or are you Christians just a bunch of hypocrites for doing so?
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thunder runner32
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2005 09:23 am
Matthew 18:22 When the disciples asked how many times one must forgive another, he replied I say not unto thee, Until seven times; but, Until seventy times seven. Which in turn means that we are to forgive others as much as God forgives us.

Bartleby.com
According to the Gospel of John, the Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him. Then they reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Mosaic law and challenged him to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her." The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, "No man, lord." Jesus then said, "Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more."
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Frank Apisa
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2005 10:43 am
And what happened to the citation I offered, Thunder?

I'll save you some trouble. Here it is:



"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you: UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER OF THE LAW, NOT THE SMALLEST PART OF A LETTER, SHALL BE DONE AWAY WITH UNTIL IT ALL COME TRUE." Matthew 5: 17ff

Jesus was not here to change the law....and Leviticus IS THE LAW.

Not one letter....not one stroke of one letter!

Not until the heavens and the Earth pass away!


Now if you are suggesting that Jesus was a hypocrite...trying to have things both ways...we can discuss that.

Is that your point?

And what about this cited passage?
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thunder runner32
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2005 10:45 am
That's an interesting passage...I'll have to get back later.
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