Does Religion Have a Place in the Future of Humankind?

the sleeper wrote:

Religion and spirituality are, saddly to say, going to eventually be obsolete, it is just a standard set of morals, which more and more people are choossing to ignor and are choossing to bend to their own sick and twisted way.

Your advanced christian morality includes insulting and disrespecting the moral choices of atheists as "sick and twisted", includes endless suffering for the incidental and relatively minor offenses of a race built with a predisposition to said offences, includes obeying being X because X is all powerful, includes mass discrimination, genocide and rape as acceptable... And it's a sad thing we're losing this?

Talk about "sick and twisted".

0 Replies

Todays church is failing because it is trying too hard to become a modern organisation. If it kept to it's original principals, people would respect it more.

0 Replies

What original principles? Intolerance?

0 Replies

Exactly.

0 Replies

to the antibuddah,

I didn,t say that athiest were sick and twisted, i said that the religious system used by the billions is this way because you have people say that you have to do one thing to go to heaven, yet they do another. Most church people are hippocrits(forgive the spelling) and some of them may not realize it.

To wales_rules<

If the church adopted their old policies, women wouldn't be able to use the internet, hell, there wouldn't be an internet because who ever dreated it would have been branded a heritic and burnt at the stake. We wouldn't have the nice little cars i'm sure you drive, and we wouldn't live as long as we do now considering medicine was considered an act of satin to upset god's test of your body. Personaly, if falling deathly ill is how my god is going to test me and not let me try to get better, then i want no part of him. Anyways, if the church held it's reign now like it did back then, kiss every moderen and civil device you use today good bye. But no matter how hard the church tries, it's still failling.

0 Replies

I have never seen more contradictions in my life...than in this thread. Do you people really think that we have made up all religions?!? Isn't it funny how Christianity was not made up by man? How do you explain Jesus? (A book any atheist may want to read...A Case for a Creator-Lee Stroebel....you may see that modern scientific discoveries point towards an intelligent creator) Nowadays it takes more faith to believe in the failing theory of macroevolution. Some are saying that religion is made by man to answer questions...how extremely hyppocritical! Evolutionists have to keep making stuff up everytime they are proven wrong.

Why would an atheist have morals? Does this sound like an oxy-moron to anyone else? According to atheists, we are just pieces of meat...and that we just think that we have feelings and a spirit.

Quote:

Todays church is failing because it is trying too hard to become a modern organisation. If it kept to it's original principals, people would respect it more.

That's why I respect the Catholic Church so much. Sticking to their guns and doing god's will...not man's.

People in this thread keep saying the world would be peaceful...if only religion didn't exist...what are you smoking? What on earth makes you think that if we had no moral system...we would be peaceful?!? Come on people...think things through...please! Isn't it funny that when people are exposed to true christianity(WWJD), good things happen. If everyone on earth followed the ten commandments...this would be as close to heaven on earth as possible (minus the fact that bad things will still happen(natural disaster, natural death, disease, etc.)) There would be peace and we would truly love our fellow humans. Sadly we are imperfect and this is only a dream....one day in heaven... Razz

0 Replies

thunder_runner32 wrote:

People in this thread keep saying the world would be peaceful...if only religion didn't exist...what are you smoking? What on earth makes you think that if we had no moral system...we would be peaceful?!?

panzade wrote:

"Lord Of The Flies" is an interesting book on this subject.

I believe that Lord of the Flies is indeed an interesting book on the subject. It is a microcosm of civilization and what it would be like if nobody had any morals of any kind: Hatred. Savagry. Murder. All of these things occur in Lord of the Flies because there is no civilized live there. There is no fixed set of rules or laws to follow: They follow what they want. This is a perfect example of what thunder_runner32 was talking about.

How will religion simply "fade away" or be "thrown away like all of the other useless baggage" when so many are deeply spiritual? Man did not invent religion, or the concept of religion, to make up answers to difficult questions. On the contrary, evolutionists have to do this each time their beliefs are challenged or proven wrong. One could argue that it takes more faith to believe in Evolutionism than in Chritianity.

the sleeper wrote:

Religion and spirituality are, saddly to say, going to eventually be obsolete, it is just a standard set of morals, which more and more people are choossing to ignor and are choossing to bend to their own sick and twisted way.

That's called sinning. People who aren't true followers of the Faith tend to make excuses in their wrongdoings. Just because some people abuse the name of a religion does not mean that the religion itself is a bad thing.

the sleeper wrote:

Science has become the new god and now the human morals are bassed on "can this be done in science, can a labratory really solve all these problems that god has not, will not, or choosses not to rcocnize as existant problems."

That is exactly what evolutionists have to do in order to keep their faith strong: Keep answering questions they can't answer, yet do just to appease themselves for a small period of time.

the sleeper wrote:

As time moves on, you can see that religion has steadily gone down hill, the catholic church has lost numbers, thousands of people no longer go to church.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you have tunnel vision. You are only talking to people that you know will give you the answers that you desire. In any case, the people that drop out of the church are not lost forever. In fact, just because they don't go to Catholic Church anymore doesn't mean that they're automatically secular humanists: They could simply be going to a different branch. There are dozens upon dozens of branches of the original church out there.

the sleeper wrote:

But the important thing to think about is that faith is something that everyone uses to fill those unanswered gaps in the mind. Gaps like, how WAS the universe formed?

Again, that's what evolutionists do. People with faith don't need to ask questions like that, and, therefore, don't. Evolutionists have to turn themselves to asking questions just to make sure that they are not wrong, yet are continually disproven.

the sleeper wrote:

So no, religion will not survive thruogh the next evolution of man unless the cristian revelation comes true. but even then, it will be to late.

I think that it will survive, and will never cease surviving unless humans lose free will. Religion is not a human-developped concept, yet it is treated as such. Therefore, it has as much chance of going away as, for example, the concept of Time. Time will not go away simply because the majority stops believing in it. Somebody will always remember the concept of time, no matter what actions are taken. Religion works the same way. If humans were not able to decide their beliefs, whether it be Christianity, Evolutionism, or Atheism, then humans would not have free will.

the sleeper wrote:

If the church adopted their old policies, women wouldn't be able to use the internet, hell, there wouldn't be an internet because who ever dreated it would have been branded a heritic and burnt at the stake. We wouldn't have the nice little cars i'm sure you drive, and we wouldn't live as long as we do now considering medicine was considered an act of satin to upset god's test of your body. (...) Anyways, if the church held it's reign now like it did back then, kiss every moderen and civil device you use today good bye.

Why would the church adopt its old policies? One of these policies in the first place is to abide by the law of the land. In any case, have you even read the rules that Jesus taught in the New Testament? There are two main commandments. The old laws were basically abolished because people were following the rules for the sake of following the rules.

the sleeper wrote:

and Personaly, if falling deathly ill is how my god is going to test me and not let me try to get better, then i want no part of him. (...) But no matter how hard the church tries, it's still failling.

Now there's a humanistic attitude. If you were confident in your faith, then you shouldn't even fear death to begin with. There's nothing wrong with using medication/sugery/etc. to stay alive, but there is something wrong with someone who thinks that death is the end, with no way out.

0 Replies

Hey Guys, I'm an atheist.

First of all, I don't propose to define what you believe so please don't try to do that for me.

For one thing, I don't "believe" in evolution. Evolution is simply the most likely theory that exists so far to explain how we came to be here. It, like all scientific theories (and UNLIKE religious principles) is based on hypothesis followed by careful critical examination of the evidence.

I'm happy to abandon evolution as an explanation as soon as a better theory is proposed and tested and found reliable.

Faith and reason are not the same thing. They are NOT the same thing. In fact I think they may be opposite things. Religions often teach you to mistrust the power of your reason (while teaching you God gave it to you in the first place)

Yes, I think all religions were made up by man, in fact it is one of the founding thoughts behind my atheism. I thought to myself "If God did not exist, would we make him up anyway?" and I answered myself "Yes we would, but then God would take different forms for each culture in the world" QED.

How do I explain Jesus? I don't...you do ....but there is only one true story surrounding Jesus, unfortunately nobody knows it. The actual truth could be anywhere between "he didn't even exist" to "he was God himself". I don't know (and nor do you) but much of the founding principles of humanism attributed to him I do admire.

You are very naive to presume that an atheist has no morals. I have argued here before that the fact that I expect no eternal reward for being a good person, and yet I strive to BE one may actually make me MORE moral than you.

I don't think the world would ever be peaceful with or without religion. In fact I think religion and war are inevitable wether there are Gods or not. I think the natural world favours competition rather than co-operation on the macro scale. (It certainly fits Darwinian principles Wink

)

Who ever told you atheists don't think they have feelings? That's just bizarre.

Atheists are divided on the subject of souls. (They are only united by their lack of belief in gods) Personally I don't think such a thing exists and I don't have any good reasons to think it does.

Lord of the Flies was actually fiction (like another popular book I might mention!) and who can tell would would really happen? Of course, we might expect that if morals would built into us by God then no decent into barbarism would take place? Who knows?

Quote:

but there is something wrong with someone who thinks that death is the end, with no way out.

Here is the crux of the matter. What? What exactly is wrong with someone who thinks that?
Can you imagine if it were true? Do you find it frightening? What if you spend your entire life expecting heaven and on the day you die....you don't even get to find out because you simply no longer exist?!? Yes it is indeed a frightening thing, and perhaps the reason your faith is so strong?

I'm happy to answer any questions about being an atheist, but guys please refrain form putting forth my beliefs without checking the truth of the matter.

0 Replies

....And while I'm here, I'm wondering if you guys could clear up some of the moral issues I've been having lately........
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

0 Replies

Quote:

Faith and reason are not the same thing. They are NOT the same thing. In fact I think they may be opposite things. Religions often teach you to mistrust the power of your reason (while teaching you God gave it to you in the first place)

HMMM....You have mistaken faith with walking blindly. Actually you are totally off...why could you not use reason to further your faith? I do it!

Quote:

You are very naive to presume that an atheist has no morals. I have argued here before that the fact that I expect no eternal reward for being a good person, and yet I strive to BE one may actually make me MORE moral than you.

What is good? If we are alone on this earth...I can define good as anything I want...are you telling me you strive to be a good person... Shocked

does this imply you have a conscious?!?! How could that be?!?

Quote:

Who ever told you atheists don't think they have feelings? That's just bizarre.

Hmmm....how do you explain them then?

Quote:

For one thing, I don't "believe" in evolution. Evolution is simply the most likely theory that exists so far to explain how we came to be here. It, like all scientific theories (and UNLIKE religious principles) is based on hypothesis followed by careful critical examination of the evidence.

Why does it keep failing then? Maybe it's completly off the mark!?

Quote:

Atheists are divided on the subject of souls. (They are only united by their lack of belief in gods) Personally I don't think such a thing exists and I don't have any good reasons to think it does.

NO!! Evolutionists cannot believe we have a soul! This implies that there is something other than this physical world!

Here is a good test to see if we are just are brains...or if we a have a soul/mind. If you take away part of your brain (like in surgery) Does part of you leave...like part of your being? NO! I'm sorry if I come across as offensive. Sad

Quote:

I'm happy to abandon evolution as an explanation as soon as a better theory is proposed and tested and found reliable.

I'm glad that you keep an open mind. That's what is really important. If you would like to learn about evolution/creation. A very good book-I just finished-A Case for A Creator It uses scientific reason-which you want- to help show incredible evidence for God.

0 Replies

Eorl wrote:

....And while I'm here, I'm wondering if you guys could clear up some of the moral issues I've been having lately........
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Notice where all of your quotes are coming from; the Old Testament. Old Testament laws were very different because Jesus had not yet died for the sins that you and I have committed. Also, passages such as Leviticus 21:20 use metaphors. The imperfect could not approach God. Please read some commentaries on these subjects, and I think you'll get some of your questions answered.

0 Replies

Since when is having a disability a sin?

0 Replies

thunder_runner32 wrote:

Quote:
Faith and reason are not the same thing. They are NOT the same thing. In fact I think they may be opposite things. Religions often teach you to mistrust the power of your reason (while teaching you God gave it to you in the first place)

HMMM....You have mistaken faith with walking blindly. Actually you are totally off...why could you not use reason to further your faith? I do it!

Quote:
You are very naive to presume that an atheist has no morals. I have argued here before that the fact that I expect no eternal reward for being a good person, and yet I strive to BE one may actually make me MORE moral than you.

What is good? If we are alone on this earth...I can define good as anything I want...are you telling me you strive to be a good person... does this imply you have a conscious?!?! How could that be?!?

Quote:
Who ever told you atheists don't think they have feelings? That's just bizarre.

Hmmm....how do you explain them then?

Quote:
For one thing, I don't "believe" in evolution. Evolution is simply the most likely theory that exists so far to explain how we came to be here. It, like all scientific theories (and UNLIKE religious principles) is based on hypothesis followed by careful critical examination of the evidence.

Why does it keep failing then? Maybe it's completly off the mark!?

Quote:
Atheists are divided on the subject of souls. (They are only united by their lack of belief in gods) Personally I don't think such a thing exists and I don't have any good reasons to think it does.

NO!! Evolutionists cannot believe we have a soul! This implies that there is something other than this physical world!

Here is a good test to see if we are just are brains...or if we a have a soul/mind. If you take away part of your brain (like in surgery) Does part of you leave...like part of your being? NO! I'm sorry if I come across as offensive.

Quote:
I'm happy to abandon evolution as an explanation as soon as a better theory is proposed and tested and found reliable.

I'm glad that you keep an open mind. That's what is really important. If you would like to learn about evolution/creation. A very good book-I just finished-A Case for A Creator It uses scientific reason-which you want- to help show incredible evidence for God.

Faith is walking blindly, that's why it's called "blind faith" The dictionary definition of faith is "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence"

Using reason to further faith is just a way of convincing yourself you are right without the need to test your assumptions. Logic and reason should be used to propose hypotheses which are then PUT TO TEST to see if they are true. Otherwise your hypothesis remains a hypothesis and nothing more.

What is good? is a very big question and two priests from the same church will have different answers, let alone two people from different cultures. Yes I strive to be good. I do for that for many reasons including my own self satisfaction eg. When I help a lady across the street I feel good about myself, (and I don't hope to be rewarded for it after I die). Yes I have a conscience (which I'm sure you meant to say). I feel guilt when I wrong someone and when I lie. I have very strong values that I apply to myself and I have minimum expectations of the behavior of my family and friends. The rules that develop in a functioning society do not require belief in God to exist. Social behavior that works against society is not permitted to exist, and when social disfunction becomes common, the society fails and dies. (It's really quite Darwinian Wink

)

I'm stunned and actually a little frightened that you think atheists don't have feelings...oh wait, I can't be stunned or frightened can I? Trust me. when I cut my finger, it hurts. Not always right away....sometimes I have a second to think..."uh-oh this is gonna hur..OWWW". Maybe it takes God a second to notice I cut myself before he sends me my feelings ? Perhaps I'm just low on his to-do list...that would seem fair though.

Evolution does not "keep failing", it's a VERY strong theory. Strong enough to be generally accepted as fact by most including plenty of theists. It just happens to directly contradict the bible's version of events so it placed under enormous burden of proof by hard-core creationists. I would imagine that if every fossil that connected every step between mud and man was suddenly discovered, you would still not believe it. Darwin did not understand the process fully when he proposed it, and it still has plenty of wrinkles to iron out but to propose that the lack of perfection in a complex theory makes the opposite theory true is ridiculous.

Let me be more clear with an example. I say I drove to work today. I have my wife to say she saw me, I have a fuel receipt from along the way and my car is in the carpark. But you are certain I teleported here and since I do not have footage of the entire trip, you say your point is proven.

YES Evolutionists can believe we have a soul. I don't.... which makes the point a little hard for me to push but trust me, they are out there. For example, there are those who believe that the soul is reborn or re-incarnated and some of those do not believe in God.

I said "Atheists are divided on the subject of souls" not evolutionists. Again the only thing that unites athiests is that they do not believe that gods exist. (Interestingly, many of them object to being thought of as people who believe that gods do not exist - which is a different thing entirely)

You have implied that belief in "something other than the material world" would equate to belief in your God. That's just plain wrong. Sorry. There may well be forces I cannot see or comprehend that influence the universe that do not have anything to do with gods. Some examples to which science has brought a clear understanding include magnetism, gravity and electricity. (All these things were once part of "Gods Mysterious Ways") I actually imagine there are an immeasurable number of things yet to be discovered and understood.

Quote:

If you take away part of your brain (like in surgery) Does part of you leave...like part of your being? NO

Actually YES. Doctors use change of personality to detect things like brain tumors...and the whole point of a labotomy is to change who you are. Here is a good test to see if we are just brains....de-activate the entire brain so that it's "brain dead". What kind of person are you left with? What does he feel or think? How does he react? When he dies...when do I get to see his soul rise up to heaven?

"A case for a creator" is just the latest church sponsored propaganda. It's not good science, but give the guy a break, he stopped being an atheist at the age of 81 and suddenly discovers there's a heaven to go to instead of rotting in a wooden box? Hello!! Wink

0 Replies

lefty06 wrote:

Eorl wrote:
....And while I'm here, I'm wondering if you guys could clear up some of the moral issues I've been having lately........
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Notice where all of your quotes are coming from; the Old Testament. Old Testament laws were very different because Jesus had not yet died for the sins that you and I have committed. Also, passages such as Leviticus 21:20 use metaphors. The imperfect could not approach God. Please read some commentaries on these subjects, and I think you'll get some of your questions answered.

Oh, so the new testament is like "IGNORE PREVIOUS".

Good, I'll remember that the next time some-one tries to quote from it.

0 Replies

God is not neccessarily a belief; in its deeper meaning it describes a subjective experience that expands your identity beyond your personal bag of bones. Jung said, "Religion is a defense against the experience of god."

God is a word for the ultimate experience of the mystery of life and that which is beyond time, ie, the eternal. Joseph Campbell said it most directly and succinctly: "The ultimate mystery of being is beyond all categories of thought." This has nothing to do with belief or logic, but it has everything to do with the feeling of awe that overcomes everybody every now and then. This was the "wow" of the hippie on a drug trip overcome with the sheer beauty of the world.

Morality is the least part of religion and is often more negative than positive. A fundamentalist would take the previous "wow" statement and turn it into a defensive morality statement something like,"You shouldn't do drugs." And this would demonstrate Jung's statement about religion being a defense; many people including myself took drugs to have a "god" experience.

That so many people in this country limit religion to the exercise of morality is a sad commentary on the spirituality of the people. In the legend of Tristan and Isolde, these two people accepted death and excommunication and the fires of hell—that they believed in literally—as punishment for their personal love. They were subject to this penalty because the morality of the church deemed that personal love—not sex—broke the rules, the morality of society. The church of the middle ages accepted sex in marriage, but the personal love between a man and a woman violated the morality of the church.

0 Replies

God is not neccessarily a belief; in its deeper meaning it describes a subjective experience that expands your identity beyond your personal bag of bones. Jung said, "Religion is a defense against the experience of god."

God is a word for the ultimate experience of the mystery of life and that which is beyond time, ie, the eternal. Joseph Campbell said it most directly and succinctly: "The ultimate mystery of being is beyond all categories of thought." This has nothing to do with belief or logic, but it has everything to do with the feeling of awe that overcomes everybody every now and then. This was the "wow" of the hippie on a drug trip overcome with the sheer beauty of the world.

0 Replies

Whatever just happened worked and know we have a new set of problems on our hands.
So we are here with all these breakthroughs in each scientific area but we still haven't solved one of lifes other riddles.
Do you know where your going to.......
I think we are on the verge of the next practical resurrection of religion as a teacher as well as a healer.
I would also like to think that along the way water will become the most sacred of ingredients ,to be worshipped no less.

0 Replies

Here's an idea( and i'm just being sarcastic, don't take this literally) Let's blow the world up, all of us die, then well solve this problem of god or no god and see who's right. This started out as will religion survive and all the sudden it becomes "I'm athiest and i'm better than you" and "you are an emotionless piece of crap that is going to burn in hell bcause you don't belive in god". Jeesh, let's get back on track please, so i pose the question Does religion have a place in the future of human kind?

0 Replies

Quote:

You have implied that belief in "something other than the material world" would equate to belief in your God. That's just plain wrong. Sorry. There may well be forces I cannot see or comprehend that influence the universe that do not have anything to do with gods. Some examples to which science has brought a clear understanding include magnetism, gravity and electricity. (All these things were once part of "Gods Mysterious Ways") I actually imagine there are an immeasurable number of things yet to be discovered and understood.

Yes, there could be more forces...but that still doesn't explain where the universe came from?

Why do you keep saying evolution is a strong theory? It is destroyed at it's root with simple logic. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Something cannot create itself. There, I just disproved evolution. How pathetic does this sound...A big bang happened and everything was made...it made itself...nothing created matter...talk about speaking in generalities. Come on people...when was the last time you saw something create itsself. Strong theory...*lauging out loud*

What makes more sense...nothing created us...something created us?

If you use this logic...then you come across the truth...then you see that the belief in this is in religion...thus unless the future has no place with truth...then it has no place with religion....hopefully not.

Quote:

"A case for a creator" is just the latest church sponsored propaganda. It's not good science, but give the guy a break, he stopped being an atheist at the age of 81 and suddenly discovers there's a heaven to go to instead of rotting in a wooden box? Hello!!

Did you read it? Good science...does this mean that whenever scientists find something that cannot be explained by evolution...it's bad science...OK

0 Replies

if jesus died to save us from our sins, why havn't we learned from him and stoped sinning, unless the crucifiction process went wrong, maybe he should have left us to be our selves and let god purge the world or some thing like that.?

"here is wisdom"

0 Replies

Does Religion Have a Place in the Future of Humankind?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know