LIFE IN A EUROPEAN SOCIALIST COUNTRY :SPAIN

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Liberal and Centrist Americans, many of you believe (thanks to the misguided view of Michael Moore and many others) that life in Europe is by far more comfortable, prosperous and politically stable than in the US. Unfortunately, you are wrong. As an Spanish citizen, I am going to describe you how the "European way of life" works.

There are Social Security benefits for everyone, no matter how much you have contributed to the system. Illegal immigrants are allowed by law to receive public education and form syndicates. The farmers are also entitled to be paid an "annual minimum income", if they are unemployed, with no time limit. This measure, of course, keeps them from seeking a job in other economic fields of activity. Due to this, unemployment rate in Andalusia (the region where the majority of these farmers live) remains the highest of the EU( ¡¡¡¡15%!!!)and the Socialist Party has got a regular stock of over 800000 votes on national elections.

However, subsidies and privileges are not limited to farmers. The workers of National Shipyards (a public company facing bankrupt because of Korean competition), organized several "pacific demonstrations" in their cities of origin, which mainly consisted of burning cars and rioting with the Police, in order to keep their jobs. Our Socialist Government, presided by the infamous Mr. Zapatero( Shoemaker) decided it was time to start the construction of several frigates and submarines which nobody has asked for, but will surely calm down these angry and violent workers. And the parliament enacted a law which allowed the government to spend 450 million in compensations for 4000 workers who were nevertheless made redundant.

Finally, this is likely to sound atrocious, but Spanish State not only provides medical free care, but also guarantees free abortion. There are almost no legal requirements: our politicians consider abortion is a "right of women" (Many teenagers under 18 are of course considered to be emotionally mature enough to take this decision)

What about taxation? Tax rates are set in a level which the majority of Americans would find nothing but unbearable.An verage family with a total taxable income of 65000 , has the tax rate applied of 32%!!!. It should not be surprising, after all: we have to pay social benefits for almost everyone, the new frigates and abortion for teenagers...

It will continue

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The Spaniard- Welcome to A2K!

I am very pleased that a person who lives the socialist "good life" daily, is here to share his views.

I think that many people in America don't realize that socialism costs, big time, and drives down incentive and innovation. I am looking forward to your posts.

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Don't forget the treacherous withdrawal of troops from Iraq. I think there is no hope for the Spanish people. Do not complain about Zapatero: you got what you voted in the elections.

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One question.
What is the difference, if any, on taxation, abortion laws or shipyard activities, between the governments of Zapatero and Aznar?

One observation:
Why did you tranlate the meaning of President Zapatero's last name? I don't undertand why. A shoemaker works in an honest craft, and there's nothing diminishing in it.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

I think that many people in America don't realize that socialism costs, big time, and drives down incentive and innovation. I am looking forward to your posts.

I'm glad, Phoenix, some one can substantiate your prejudices.

Any idea, btw, since when the Socialists rule in Spain? And what kind of governemnt had been there before?

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The Spaniard

65000 family income/anno? You certainly will explain later, how much an average Spanish family earns.

And as an aside:

the ruling Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (Partido Socialista Obrero Español or PSOE) is a social democratic party - Tony Blair in the UK is the leader of a SOCIALIST party:wink:

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just a short note : listened to CNBC yesterday(report on business, certainly not a 'liberal' network, in my opinion). discussion of president bush' proposed cuts in subsidy to agriculture; loud and continuing laughter from participants on the panel; comment made by commentators : the largest beneficiaries of agricultural subsidies are mega-farms often owned by large corporations; the commentators stated that they did not think any material cuts to agric subsidies would make it through the house and senate -re-election of senators and house members coming up; they are expected to 'bring home the bacon' , that is, show the electorate that they are willing to stand up for their constituents and not cave in to 'budget cuts' in their election districts- . they also stated that out of the total of over 100 cuts proposed in the previous budget only very few made it through the house and senate . perhaps some of our american friends can enlighten us on the success of proposed 'budget cuts' . hbg

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fbaezer wrote:

One observation:
Why did you tranlate the meaning of President Zapatero's last name? I don't undertand why. A shoemaker works in an honest craft, and there's nothing diminishing in it.

Perhaps George Arbusto sound better? :wink:

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Let's see, does Spain have a sales tax? Property tax? State tax? I can add up all the way the government taxes me and it will be more than 32%.
Our state tax alone is quite high in California. In many areas the sales tax is nearly 9%. It's balancing whether one thinks they are "living well" because they inherited millions of dollars or feel they are overtaxed on a small income. I continually hear from my extremely rich clientele, freinds and relatives that they are overtaxed. Many of them don't need Medicare but they do use it, just as one example.

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P.S. Spain is a beautiful country and I look forward to visiting again -- Barcelona is one of the greatest cities in the world not to mention Madrid which is a center of art and design. It's not money that makes your country wonderful -- it's the culture.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

fbaezer wrote:

One observation:
Why did you tranlate the meaning of President Zapatero's last name? I don't undertand why. A shoemaker works in an honest craft, and there's nothing diminishing in it.

Perhaps George Arbusto sound better? :wink:

I look forward to visiting your country again, also, Walter. I also look forward to visiting Italy where many of the product I sell are Italian design. Out cultural center is NYC. Period.

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Fortunately, you have a family. This decreases your IRS taxes.

How about living under a non-socialist government and being alone :

Quote:

Fraction de revenu net imposable

Taux d'imposition

Jusqu'à 4.334 EUR - 0 %

Fraction de 4.335 à 8.524 EUR - 6,83%

Fraction de 8.525 à 15.004 EUR- 19,14%

Fraction de 15.005 à 24.294 EUR - 28,26%

Fraction de 24.295 à 39.529 EUR - 37,38%

Fraction de 39.530 à 48.747 EUR - 42,62%

Fraction égale ou supérieur à 48.747 EUR - 48,09%

Spaniard wrote:

Due to this, unemployment rate in Andalusia (the region where the majority of these farmers live) remains the highest of the EU( ¡¡¡¡15%!!!)

Which is by far not true :

Quote:

Of the EU's 254 regions, 53 had an unemployment rate of 4.5% or less in 2003, ie, half the average for the EU25 (9.1%). They included 11 of 12 Dutch regions, 8 of 9 Austrian regions, 18 regions in the United Kingdom and 8 Regions in Italy. Cyprus and Luxembourg also had unemployment below this level, as did one region each in Belgium, the Czech Republic, Ireland, Hungary, Portugal and Sweden. At the other extreme, 25 regions had a rate of 18.2% or higher, ie, double the EU25 average: 10 of 16 Polish regions, five in Germany, four in France (not the French mainland), three in Italy, two in Slovakia and one in Spain

This has not hapened after Zapatero was elected, had it?

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If you get taxed 32%, but your healthcare is free, how much are you really being taxed? How much would you have spent in health insurance/premiums/payouts over the year? What if someone had gotten sick in your family?

Think before you post, people!

Cycloptichorn

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Francis wrote:

How about living under a non-socialist government and being alone :

To change the first - just go downstairs ... :wink:

To alter the second: wait some more days of discussions about the 35 hours week ... :wink:

Nevertheless: thanks for those infos: I am very pleased that a person who lives the conservative's "good life" daily, is here to share his views. Laughing

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Well, add the health insurance (without any deductables) into most pre-Medicare middle-aged person's taxes and it could reach close to 50%. The recent tax cut for the majority of the average wage earner amounted to a Coca Cola per day.

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Like LW, I can get to 32% without even counting sales and property taxes. Only I also have to shell out for insurance premiums for benefits that I will lose as soon as I no longer for this employer or can no longer afford to pay in.

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Unemployment rates in Andalusia,(analyzing each province individually)

-Cádiz ( 21,5 %) This is where one the most important shipyards is placed

-Seville ( 16% )(Another conflictive shipyard. The most violent riots took place here)

-Córdoba (15%)( The majority of town councils are controlled by the Communist Party)

-Huelva( 15%)

-Granada ( only 9,5%, below Spanish average)

-Málaga( 9-10%)

-Jaén( 16%)

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Of course, the 32% rate only affects direct income. Previously, every Spanish company is forced by law to deduct an amount of money from its employees' salary to finance Social Security. So we have a deduction made by our own employers, and, secondly, we owe the 32% of our income to the State. I do not know what the exact amounts are, but the sum should be about 40-45%. (Property is taxed separately)

I did not exactly referred to Zapatero's policies, but the socialist, ill-conceived principles that have influenced Spanish society from 1982 to 2000, under the rule of Felipe Gonzalez( I include Aznar's first term because he had to govern along with other political forces that seriously limited his ability to implement reforms. During the last four years, the Popular Party government decidedly intended to reform the labour market and Social Security, but our syndicates organized a mass national strike which stopped these programs. )

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Your method of counting the unemployed bears no resemblance to the sneaky way the US counts the unemployed. If true satistics were ever determined, we could easily rival your unemployment figures. The average cost of living in the US is extraordinarily higher than Spain. In my area, I could wager to guess it's astronomical. I would agree that government is a necessary evil and we can go on and on about the advantages and disadvantages in living in different countries. I'd move to the US and see if your standard of living is better (if you're stating that there is absolutely no opportunity for advancement in your country or in you particular job) or, maybe better yet, move to a desert island where there is no government.

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The Spaniard wrote:

I include Aznar's first term because he had to govern along with other political forces that seriously limited his ability to implement reforms. During the last four years, the Popular Party government decidedly intended to reform the labour market and Social Security, but our syndicates organized a mass national strike which stopped these programs.

<Sure, the people is so uneducated and lazy...he even dont vote like me Crying or Very sad

>

Leting us know unemployment rates in Andalucia doesn't make it more high than all EU...

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LIFE IN A EUROPEAN SOCIALIST COUNTRY :SPAIN

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