What I've heard about Iraq

I heard Jack Hensley and Eugene Armstrong cry for help.
I heard Nicholas Berg cry for help.
I heard Margaret Hassan cry for help
I heard Kenneth Bigley cry for help.
I heard Enzo Baldoni cry for help
I heard Ivailo Kepov, Georgy Lazov, Fabrizio Quattrocchi, Hussein Olayyan, Zoran Nasovski and Dalibor Lazarevski, Sajid Naeem, Azad Hussein Khan, Kim Sun-Il, Durmus Kumdereli and Murat Yuce all cry for help before they were tortured and executed by those some like to call "freedom fighters".

It's interesting how some people can view the world in completely different ways.

None of those people would have been tortured or killed if we hadn't invaded Iraq. Your response is tangential to the topic at best.

Cycloptichorn

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I heard 10,000,000 Iraquis choose the ballot over the bomb. The US over the insurgents. Perhaps freedom is messy...or perhaps I'm wrong.
Oh, and don't forget the millions of young Iraqui men between the ages of 16 and 26...they shall never be heard.



The United Nations did most of the work on Iraq's electoral procedures, and the election is being supervised by the Independent Electoral Commission, an Iraqi group assisted by a United Nations official. Who is eligible to vote?

All Iraqis 18 years or older are eligible, provided they can prove their citizenship. Iraq has no official census, so voters were registered through ration cards used for the UN oil-for-food program, which began in 1996. Iraqis whose ration-card information was correct were considered registered.

Iraq has a population of more than 25 million people, but 40 percent of them are under the age of 14 (in the United States, 20 percent of the population is 14 or younger). This young population leaves just 15.5 million Iraqis eligible - and 1.2 million of them live outside the country.


edited for clarification

Nicely said, Pan.

Hey pan, just curious, if Iraqi's were registered according to their ration cards, how were the expats registered? Many expats who voted have been out of the country since before the first gulf war.

Edit: Just want to clarify that it is only curiosity that makes me ask that question. I just noticed, upon re-reading your post that you were illustrating how much more difficult it would have been to have the elections without the UN.

I read that the expats were registered in their respective countries...gimme a moment to find that site.
My take is that expats were easy to register...it was the Iraquis at home that were hard to account for since Saddam had never instituted a census.
(Too messy to actually account for the missing, you know?)

None of this side discussion over how people were registered changes the vast body of lies, deceptions, intentional mistruths, and plain bad judgements that led to and make up the body of the Iraq war.

It is commendable and admirable that so many Iraqis faced possible violence to vote. At no point does this excuse the actions which have lead to this point; the ends (which, by the way, we aren't even close to) most certainly do not justify the means.

Cycloptichorn

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:eZ_jH9GDdw0J:www.dos.state.pa.us/dos/lib/dos/20/faq_iraq_elections.pdf+Iraqui+voter+registration&hl=en&client=firefox-a


http://www.iraqocv.org/php/index.php?lang=eng


hope the first one works...it's PDF translated to html

That makes sense, thanks for the link.

Sorry for the distraction, Cy, it was just something I wondered about. I agree that the end (to the extent that there is one) does not justify the means.

At first I thought you were describing Saddam's transgressions...
And it's two wars...not one...no ..three. I forgot the Iraq-Iran war. I don't know Cyclo...there's just too big a mountain of Hussein's bodies stacked up.
You are our nation's conscience Cyclo. I was brought up with the same beliefs. I respect your morals immensely...it's just that I can't ride this train to the end of the track...I gotta get off at the next station.

Lest we forget, the U.S. helped Saddam with those piles of bodies regarding the Iraq-Iran war. Funny how we'll look the other way when it benefits us, but then pay attention when the oil starts to dry up.

Actually, it isn't funny whatsoever.

And your point being ....... ?

You think we looked the other way when it benefitted us, but are paying attention now. Which is your point, that we should not pay attention now, or that we should've paid attention then?

We should have paid attention then.

Do you know who this man is? Do you know what he was trying to do?

Reagan responded to the situation as he and his administration saw fit at the time. Was it the best thing to do? Who can say. We only have one timeline from which to judge.

Dookie, you might find this hard to believe...but for fairness sake I included Iraq Iran...I don't believe there's anything black and white about complicity and our transgressions in the last 20 years.
But I crunched the numbers and I can live with the results...if Iraq stabilizes and becomes self-sufficient...WITHOUT our presence there.

The same litany of bad logic as always.

1. The invasion was necessary because it was necessary to be very sure that Iraq had destroyed its WMD after years of lies and deception on Hussein's part and his inexplicable inability to provide hard evidence that the weapons had been destroyed and the programs dismantled (if indeed they were). Had he still had these things, millions could have died down the road.
2. I am unaware of any intentional mistruths on the part of the administration, although I hear you liberals repeat this concept over and over again like some kind of prayer.
3. We did not invade primarily to rescue the Iraqis from their hideous opression, but it is certainly an important goal. You seem perfectly happy with the idea of them having remained playthings of Hussein et al.

1. The invasion was not necessary. Did you even read the links?

2. I repeat: did you even read the links?

3. Then let's invade North Korea, Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Sudan immediately. Or at least divest ourselves completely from these oppressive governments.



America will never learn. And besides, we need the oil.

God, do I get sick of hearing about oil, Hitler and seeing that stupid picture.