What can we do to help improve science education in the US?

Soylent Green represents an answer some of us are seeking to prevent and the reprocessing of bodies for food is a minor matter in that movie except insofar as it is just one of a large number of things which secular materialism logically leads to.

I can't see why secular materialists are not prepared to defend such a society preferring instead to rabbit endlessly on about fossils and rock formations.

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spendius wrote:

Soylent Green represents an answer some of us are seeking to prevent and the reprocessing of bodies for food is a minor matter in that movie except insofar as it is just one of a large number of things which secular materialism logically leads to.

I can't see why secular materialists are not prepared to defend such a society preferring instead to rabbit endlessly on about fossils and rock formations.

Talk about not making sense. Do you know that most cannibalism is religious in origin?

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Religions develop from societies not the other way round. In the primitive societies they ate their enemies in order to turn them into **** so they could laugh at them. It was only later that religion took up the developmental potential aspect.

What do you think of that then POM?

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No, they ate their enemies, as well as those they esteemed, to take on the stengths of the departed.

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Okay POM. It's a moot point. Some of both maybe. I prefer my explanation though. It's more amusing. I think your version was made up to increase a sense of fear of the jungle primitive building up his strength.

My lot are goofing off.

Anyway- the point was that religion took it up later and thus rendered your-

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Talk about not making sense. Do you know that most cannibalism is religious in origin?

into a literary version of standing on a rake.

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So, what can we do to help improve science education in the US?

We probably covered a bunch of things way back in the beginning of this thread, but are there any relatively simple, effective to implement suggestions?

Thanks,

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In loco parentis and double teacher's wages. Kids need teachers with a bit of swagger not ones skulking about in scruffy jeans and driving rust buckets. And scrap PTAs or at lease pull their teeth out.

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spendius wrote:

In loco parentis and double teacher's wages. Kids need teachers with a bit of swagger not ones skulking about in scruffy jeans and driving rust buckets. And scrap PTAs or at lease pull their teeth out.

I think we might need to tripple teachers salaries, but I wonder if that will improve the results.

Most teachers we have try pretty hard. At pre-college level they all have degrees in education. If we increase salaries, won't we just get more teachers who try hard?

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By heck ros- you're a bit naive.

You can only increase the number of teachers if somebody says so. What you will get is an increase in applicants and thus set higher standards of recruitment. Or hopefully anyway. All other things being equal which they seldom are.

Year on year such a policy will gradually educate a nation to find a number of occupations too distasteful for them to even consider doing and they will have to bring in foreign labour to do those jobs. I will forbear mentioning any details and will content myself with alluding to them.

Generally those sorts of jobs are the most necessary ones and with all the necessary jobs being done by foreign labour it becomes necessary to find jobs for the educated American to do. These are, by the inherent logic of my proposition, less necessary jobs, and the evidence of how unnecessary a job can be is there for all to see. Well- nearly be. It has some way to go yet.

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Start by making religious education illegal.

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spendius wrote:

By heck ros- you're a bit naive.

You can only increase the number of teachers if somebody says so. What you will get is an increase in applicants and thus set higher standards of recruitment. Or hopefully anyway. All other things being equal which they seldom are.

Year on year such a policy will gradually educate a nation to find a number of occupations too distasteful for them to even consider doing and they will have to bring in foreign labour to do those jobs. I will forbear mentioning any details and will content myself with alluding to them.

Generally those sorts of jobs are the most necessary ones and with all the necessary jobs being done by foreign labour it becomes necessary to find jobs for the educated American to do. These are, by the inherent logic of my proposition, less necessary jobs, and the evidence of how unnecessary a job can be is there for all to see. Well- nearly be. It has some way to go yet.

I had hoped you would make more sense in this thread than you do in the others. But I can see I was wrong.

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Wilso wrote:

Start by making religious education illegal.

As tempting as that might sound to those of us who recognize the dangers of organized religion, it would infringe on certain basic rights, which I think are equally important to a healthy society.

Nice try though Wilso Wink

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What do you mean--"nice try"?

It was fatuous. Beneath consideration.

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Wilso wrote:

Start by making religious education illegal.

Are you suggesting the Soviet model of society again, Wilso?

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rosborne979 wrote:

So, what can we do to help improve science education in the US?

We probably covered a bunch of things way back in the beginning of this thread, but are there any relatively simple, effective to implement suggestions?

Some common sense ideas (which is why most of them won't be adopted):

Perhaps instead of degrees in education, they should be required to have degrees in their subject area , i.e. science teachers must have a real science degree not one in science education, history teachers must have a real history degree etc.

If you want to increase emphasis on the basics where kids are failing , then maybe you should eliminate a lot of the fluff , i.e. sports, theater, etc. (Parents who want athletics or music etc to be part of their kids experience can do it on their own dime, after school.) Let the schools focus on the necessary, not try to be all things to all people.

Redundant or unnecessary administrative and non-teaching functions such as psychologists and before/after school daycare should be given the boot.

Bonuses for teachers whose classes succeed, not raises for teachers whose classes don't learn. Fire teachers who do not produce academic results. Do not let union bureaucrats protect unproductive deadwood.

Eliminate federal and state departments of education and let that money stay in the local community, disbursed by local school boards for use at local schools.

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real life wrote:

Wilso wrote:
Start by making religious education illegal.

Are you suggesting the Soviet model of society again, Wilso?

Anything that stops lunatics like you freak.

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Wilso wrote:

real life wrote:
Wilso wrote:
Start by making religious education illegal.

Are you suggesting the Soviet model of society again, Wilso?

Anything that stops lunatics like you freak.

It would appear that yours, not mine, is the view that lies far outside the mainstream of a free society, Wilso.

You may pretend to believe in freedom, but in fact you do not.

You believe in freedom for yourself and any who share your opinion, but not for others.

Your view of an ideal society has been rejected by nearly the entire civilized world.

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I'm afraid rl that you view human beings a little too effortlessly and in a manner very similar to Wilso.

And if this is anything to go by-

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spendius wrote:
By heck ros- you're a bit naive.

You can only increase the number of teachers if somebody says so. What you will get is an increase in applicants and thus set higher standards of recruitment. Or hopefully anyway. All other things being equal which they seldom are.

Year on year such a policy will gradually educate a nation to find a number of occupations too distasteful for them to even consider doing and they will have to bring in foreign labour to do those jobs. I will forbear mentioning any details and will content myself with alluding to them.

Generally those sorts of jobs are the most necessary ones and with all the necessary jobs being done by foreign labour it becomes necessary to find jobs for the educated American to do. These are, by the inherent logic of my proposition, less necessary jobs, and the evidence of how unnecessary a job can be is there for all to see. Well- nearly be. It has some way to go yet.

I had hoped you would make more sense in this thread than you do in the others. But I can see I was wrong.

and my simple post is outside your comprehension (and thus nonsense by definition) you are hardly qualified to pronounce on the provision of education for 50 million young Americans.

There are no easy answers despite your evident fondness for them.

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spendius wrote:

Religions develop from societies not the other way round. In the primitive societies they ate their enemies in order to turn them into **** so they could laugh at them. It was only later that religion took up the developmental potential aspect.

What do you think of that then POM?

Strictly speaking, religions neither develop from societies nor do societies develop from religion. So much of religion has to do with coping with the environment. For example, Jewish dietary laws developed as a response to the climate and the food preservation technology of the ancient Levant.
The Muslim veil had nothing to do with modesty but with protection of the skin from the harsh desert winds. Given that, then religion has considerable influence on the formation and continuation of society.

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rosbourne -- During the late 60s and early 70s, left-wing students in Michigan held that prospective teachers must know their subject area and really did not need to take education courses per se.

today, there is a trend toward an undergraduate subject major and graduate work in education, although graduate work in education is something of a farce.

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What can we do to help improve science education in the US?

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