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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 03:39 am
@Setanta,
The effects of meteor impact, mega-volcanoes or even a large volcanic activity will not be short lived. It is time people realised living by the coast is a bad idea. Has anyone stopped building since GW flooding vast areas?

Tsunamis and the like cause the same devastation to infrastructure but with more loss of life. The main difference is people rebuild so they can move again from GW.

Pinatobu lowered the temp by 2 degrees C. Wouldnt it be lovely if GW devotees could raise it by the same amount?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 03:43 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Pinatobu lowered the temp by 2 degrees C.
Locally? Regionally? Worldwide?

(Even anti-climate change sites just say that the average global temperatures dropped about 0.5°C for about two years after the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991.)
layman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 03:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,
From NASA:

Quote:
When Mount Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines June 15, 1991, an estimated 20 million tons of sulfur dioxide and ash particles blasted more than 12 miles (20 km) high into the atmosphere. The eruption caused widespread destruction and loss of human life. Gases and solids injected into the stratosphere circled the globe for three weeks. Volcanic eruptions of this magnitude can impact global climate, reducing the amount of solar radiation reaching the Earth's surface, lowering temperatures in the troposphere, and changing atmospheric circulation patterns.

Major eruptions alter the Earth's radiative balance because volcanic aerosol clouds absorb terrestrial radiation, and scatter a significant amount of the incoming solar radiation, an effect known as "radiative forcing" that can last from two to three years following a volcanic eruption.

the climate model calculated a general cooling of the global troposphere, but yielded a clear winter warming pattern of surface air temperature over Northern Hemisphere continents. The temperature of the tropical lower stratosphere increased by 4 Kelvin (4°C) because of aerosol absorption of terrestrial longwave and solar near-infrared radiation.

"The modeled temperature change is consistent with the temperature anomalies observed after the eruption," Stenchikov says. "The pattern of winter warming following the volcanic eruption is practically identical to a pattern of winter surface temperature change caused by global warming.


http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Volcano/
Quote:

It is forced by the aerosol radiative effect, and circulation in winter is stronger than the aerosol radiative cooling that dominates in summer.


Well, OK, then! Warmer in the winter, cooler in the summer. What's not to like!? More volcano eruptions, please.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 04:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Stay away from Wikipedia Walt. It is good for a fast ref, but it has to be accurate.

Quote:
The Pinatubo climate forcing was stronger than the opposite, warming effects of either the El Niño event or anthropogenic greenhouse gases in the period 1991-93....It has been an extremely important and timely event to the atmospheric sciences, permitting climate models to be tested and tuned, and showing that a powerful eruption providing a 15 to 20 Mt SO2 release into the stratosphere can produce sufficient aerosols to offset global warming trends and severely impact the ozone budget.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/pinatubo/self/
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 04:17 am
@Ionus,
I didn't look at wikipedia but at some anti-climate-change websites.


So, quoting from the website you kindly linked:
Quote:
These values translate into a global cooling of at least 0.5 to 0.7°C, as seen in the global and Northern Hemisphere temperature records by September 1992 (Dutton and Christy, 1992). A net cooling effect of approximately 0.3°C was estimated as a result of the El Chichón aerosol (Angell and Korshover, 1983; Handler, 1989), but the overall potential cooling caused by the El Chichón cloud was moderated by warming associated with El Niño-Southern Oscillation (Angell, 1988, 1990). Pinatubo had a much larger radiative influence than El Chichón in the Southern Hemisphere (Dutton and Christy, 1992). Pinatubo's cloud caused about 1.7 times the global radiative forcing of El Chichón, making the estimated cooling of 0.5°C a more robust figure.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 04:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No doubt you also noticed that study was very close to the actual eruption? Did you read layman's response and if you did why do oyu think NASA is wrong?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 04:42 am
@Ionus,
Really, your short-term memory must be going--either that, or you just read what you want to read. Here, these posts were already made to counter your claims about expertise and your silly barrier reef, which is hardly the main issue in global warming:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Ionus wrote:
That was from Professor of Marine Physics Peter Reid, at James Cook University; Professor of Marine Geology at James Cook University, Bob Carter; what are your counter qualifications?
You forgot to mention that those both are members of the NIPCC ("Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change"). And the NIPCC is backed by the Heartland Institute, a US-based free-market thinktank that opposes action on climate change.


[quote="Walter Hinteler"I don't mind what impression you get. But since you started to publish their academical occupation, I've just added who is sponsoring their work.

I would add that someone is a member of the IPCC as well, if that's not mentioned.

Dr Robert Carter,btw, was an unpaid associate professor - he's now an advisor at at least ten climate sceptic organisations and think tanks.[/quote]

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
he's now an advisor at at least ten climate sceptic organisations and think tanks.
... and got a monthly fee of $1,667 (USD) from The Heartland Institute "as part of a program to pay 'high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist [anthropogenic global warming] message'."


MontereyJack wrote:

Sorry, Ionus, the science disagrees with you and your denialist cronies

http://www.climatehotmap.org/global-warming-locations/great-barrier-reef-australia.html

Citations there for relevant research. Rising temps ARE endangering reefs, not falling ones. And there's a big el Nino likely coming up in Oz, Prepare to eat your words.

And since you're in Oz, you don't get a notice from youtube saying a video is not licensed in your country and is blocked, since it originated in your country. I, in the US,do.

When you brought this up several months ago, I googled it and ended up with sites with Oz govt. backing, citing GBR dangers. They're there.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 05:04 am
@Ionus,
There's little reason to reply to that drivel. Your claims about Pinatubo have been dealt with. Nothing could be better than that a volcanic eruption which lowered temperatures, but the effect would be short-term, just like the effects of tsunamis and storm surges. They're short term no matter how much bluster you muster. From 1812 to 1815 there were five major volcanic eruptions, culminating with the eruption of Mount Tambora in Sumatra, with a volcanic explosive index rating of seven--on a seven point scale. It was the largest eruption known in almost 1600 years. Hundreds of thousands of people starved to death or died of common illnesses which were fatal to malnourished people. But guess what--the effects were short-term. Despite the die offs in livestock and the loss of seed stock, agriculture recovered in a few years.

Rises in mean sea level, however, are not necessarily short-term. A two meter rise in mean sea level would inundate most of Bangladesh, Vietnam and significant portions of the Indonesian and Philippine archipelagos, including a huge swathe of valuable farm land. Rice production in your neck of the woods would plummet, and rice is the most commonly eaten grain in the world. Unlike storm surges and tsunamis, and the cooling effects of some volcanic eruptions, a significant rise in mean sea level is not a short-term effect. It would last at least decades, and very well could last for centuries.

If you want to bury your head in the sand, by all means, do so. Don't expect to be taken seriously, though, when you recommend the view from there to the rest of us.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 05:16 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
No doubt you also noticed that study was very close to the actual eruption?
Ionus wrote:

Pinatobu lowered the temp by 2 degrees C.
And you got those two degrees centigrade from that site???
layman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 05:30 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
A two meter rise in mean sea level would inundate most of Bangladesh, Vietnam and significant portions of the Indonesian and Philippine archipelagos...


You say that as though it's a bad thing.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 07:31 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
and got a monthly fee of $1,667 (USD) from The Heartland Institute


What!? You mean a guy actually gets paid to do climate research work!?

Good thing those warming alarmists don't have any political, ideological, or financial incentives to do their work, eh? They can be trusted. They're all unpaid volunteers, providing their services gratuitously, eh?

Quote:
New estimates published by the Climate Change Business Journal put the total size of the industry at $1.5 trillion a year, or $4 billion a day, equivalent to the size of the global online retail market. The figure includes carbon markets, carbon consulting, biofuels, carbon sequestration, renewable technologies, eco buildings and hybrid cars...the climate industry has literally a trillion on the table that depends on big-government policy and election outcomes.

The climate change consultancy market alone is worth $1.9 billion worldwide; $670 million in the United States, thanks to businesses need to keep on top of climate policy. And these figures are expected to more than double by 2020.



http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/07/31/new-study-majority-of-climate-scientists-dont-agree-with-consensus/

It's just ABSOLUTELY disgusting that some guy would get $1700/month to work for some outfit that doesn't share my goals!

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 07:39 am
@layman,
They aren't being funded by organisations that have a stake in the result. Like say, governments. Who I'm sure would be delighted in results that said 'the way things are is fine'.

[gratuitous ad hominem attack on your apparent lack of intelligence]
layman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 07:55 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
Like say, governments. Who I'm sure would be delighted in results that said 'the way things are is fine'.


Heh, ya think? OF COURSE, no government would ever want any change, would they? The U.N.'s IPCC is trying to get trillions of dollars for "third world" countries from the U.S. and other "developed" nations, aint ya heard?

Quote:
IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer, speaking in November 2010, advised that: “…one has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. Instead, climate change policy is about how we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth…”


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/2/

Did you just fall off a turnip truck?


Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 08:55 am
@layman,
That quote by Edenhofer is from his book (co-published with H. Lotze-Campen, J. Wallacher, M. Reder) Global, aber gerecht: Klimawandel bekämpfen, Entwicklung ermöglichen, München, 2010. - (Partly online @ google books) This book was financed by MISERIOR (the German Catholic bishops’ organisation for development cooperation) and the Munich Re Foundation (a foundation by Munich Re with the task to minimise insurance risks and providing support especially in developing countries). (The two other partners are the Jesuit's university in Munich and the Climate Instute at Potsdam university - most authors teach at those institutions.)
layman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 09:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
That quote by Edenhofer is from his book (co-published with H. Lotze-Campen, J. Wallacher, M. Reder)....


Yeah, so?

Quote:
Edenhofer was lead author of the Fourth Assessment Report on Climate Change published by the IPCC in 2007.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 09:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
In a profile published in Nature in 2013, Edenhofer says that his interest in philosophy and economics was influenced by his readings of the works of Karl Marx


Like, whooda thunk, I ask ya?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 10:10 am
@layman,
layman wrote:
Like, whooda thunk, I ask ya?
Well, Karl Marx is in the curriculum of various subjects in German schools. Edenkofer's BA in philosophy at the Jesuit university was Marx related
layman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 10:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Edenkofer's BA in philosophy at the Jesuit university was Marx related


Exactly.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 12:38 pm
@layman,
Sigh. Guess I'll have write slower.

Heartland is Koch funded. Vested interest.

Majority of climate research is govt funded. Who, as you've so quickly agreed, would prefer the status quo. But for some reason that research points to human causation of climate change.

I'm racking my brain to think which A2K handle you used to use - because your 'reds under the bed' fixation is oddly familiar.
layman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2015 12:41 pm
@hingehead,

Quote:
Majority of climate research is govt funded. Who, as you've so quickly agreed, would prefer the status quo


Can't you read past a momentary insertion of deliberate irony?

I immediately and completely DISAGREED.
 

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