I hate to rain on your parade, okie,but plants TAKE IN CO2 and GIVE OFF oxygen. They break down the CO2 for the carbon and use it to produce their stalks, their trunks, their branches, their leaves, fruits and seeds. You're not gonna get increased CO2 in the atmosphere from plants. As a matter of fact, a leading current theory for the steep, sustained drop in CO2 in the atmosphere is the evolution of flowering plants, which now make up something around 85% of the world's plant mass and are much more efficent fixers of carbon than earlier plant forms.
It is the increase in CO2 in the ATMOSPHERE that is in question, not the CO2 in the oceans, or what was once CO2 in sequestered plant material (carbon sinks), and that has increased by a third, which is not a small amount. And the kpercentage of anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing close to linearly (we know it's anthropogenic in origin because the ratios of carbon isotopes C12/C13/C14 to each other in the atmosphere is changing. The isotope ratio in fossil fuels is different than in the atmosphere naturally, and the change in atmospheric ratios reflects increasing CO2 from fossil fuels in the atmosphere over the last few decades)
Also, okie, keep in mind that what one might call the bottom state of the greenhouse effect is not today, or the last century. The bottom is what would exist if there were no greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, and that would be a world colder by about 30 degrees C. It is all that water vapor in the atmosphere ,and methane and 180-280 ppm CO2 and the others, that created the average temperature of the earth in the last century--about 13 degrees C. It is the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere by a third (and rising) that will push us above the 13 degree mark.
Keep in mind, too, that the difference in global temperature between the last ice age, when the midwest was covered by a mile thick glacier, and today, is only about 5-6 degrees C. In your latest graph, notice that hundfreds of millions of years ago, the ave. global temp was around 22 degrees C. That's about 150% of the difference between the last ice age and today. That was VERY hot. And CO2 and water vapor were probably the main culprits.
I suggest you read the Wikipedia article on the Greehouse Effect, which will give you an idea of the scientific description of what's going on, and what I would have to assume were laboratory experiments which dtermined the EM absorption frequency bands of carbon dioxide and water vapor, which is what the greenhouse effect is all about.
"Prominent scientists", ican? Not exactly
Quote:One of the listed prominent scientists is Chris Allen, who holds no college degree, believes in creationism and belongs to a Southern Baptist church.
Allen is a weatherman at the FOX-affiliated TV station in Bowling Green, Ky.
On pages 227-228 of the report, Inhofe identified Allen as a meteorologist and quoted from his “scientific writing”—a blog—about global warming.
“[J]ust because major environmental groups, big media and some politicians are buying this hook, line and sinker doesn't mean as a TV weatherperson I am supposed to act as a puppy on a leash and follow along," wrote Allen. "All of this (global warming alarmism) is designed to get your money and then guilt you in to how you live your life."
Inhofe doesn’t quote other segments from Allen’s blog, however.
“My biggest argument against putting the primary blame on humans for climate change is that it completely takes God out of the picture,” he wrote on Feb. 7, 2007.
“It must have slipped these people's minds that God created the heavens and the earth and has control over what's going on. (Dear Lord Jesus ... did I just open a new pandora's box?) Yeah, I said it. Do you honestly believe God would allow humans to destroy the earth He created? Of course, if you don't believe in God and creationism then I can see why you would easily buy into the whole global warming fanfare. I think in many ways that's what this movement is ultimately out to do—rid the mere mention of God in any context,” wrote Allen.
“What these environmentalists are actually saying is ‘we know more than God— we're bigger than God—God is just a fantasy—science is real ... He isn't ... listen to US!’ I have a huge problem with that,” said Allen, a member of Hillvue Heights Church, whose pastor is a graduate of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and an adjunct faculty member of Campbellsville University, a Kentucky Baptist university.
Responding to criticism on Feb. 23 about not being a meteorologist, Allen blogged, “No, I am not … nor have I ever passed myself off as one [a meteorologist] … But some of these people automatically dismiss my comments as invalid simply because I was not able to take advantage of a higher education. The way I see it, some people are too smart for their own good.”
He added, “I am not a scientist—and I don’t have a college degree.”
The problem here is not so much Allen’s lack of education, nor his theology of hostility toward science.
The problem is Inhofe’s lack of integrity. Inhofe claims the support of prominent scientists, one of whom has no scientific credentials.
One wonders how many others on the list are without credentials like Chris Allen.
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=14084 "Prominent crank" describes him. "Prominent scientist", not. I can't say that I find an argument from fundamentalist theology against global warming, which somehow in Inhofe's mind qualifies as a "scientific" argument, very compelling.
@MontereyJack,
Monterey Jack, what evidence do you have that anything Chris Allen wrote below is false?
Quote:
Meteorologist Chris Allen of Kentucky Fox affiliate WBKO dismissed what he termed "consensus nonsense" on global warming. "But, just because major environmental groups, big media and some politicians are buying this hook, line and sinker doesn't mean as a TV weatherperson I am supposed to act as a puppy on a leash and follow along," Allen said in his blog titled "Still Not Convinced" on February 7, 2007. "All of this (global warming alarmism) is designed to get your money and then guilt you in to how you live your life," Allen explained. Allen has the Seal of Approval of the National Weather Association. "As I have stated before, not only do I believe global climate change exists - it has always existed. There have been times of global warming and cooling," Allen concluded. (LINK) "If there is a consensus among scientists about man-made global warming, then at what temperature would they all agree the earth should be before they say global warming no longer exists? The answer - there is not a scientific consensus and will never be. And if there were one, they would not agree as to what temperature the earth needs to be ‘normal' again," Allen wrote in another blog post on June 5, 2007. (LINK)
@ican711nm,
His position is a political one, not a scientific one, because the dude isn't a scientist. That is the entire point.
Cycloptichorn
@ican711nm,
Quote:Monterey Jack, what evidence do you have that anything Chris Allen wrote below is false
And when in doubt, change the issue, eh ican? Saul would be proud of you.
The issue is whether Chris Allen is a "prominent scientist". He clearly isn't. Which means that Inhofe is either mistaken or purposely lying.
@ican711nm,
Cycloptichorn and Parados, and one more time for MontereyJack,
what evidence do you have that anything Chris Allen wrote below is false?
Quote:
Meteorologist Chris Allen of Kentucky Fox affiliate WBKO dismissed what he termed "consensus nonsense" on global warming. "But, just because major environmental groups, big media and some politicians are buying this hook, line and sinker doesn't mean as a TV weatherperson I am supposed to act as a puppy on a leash and follow along," Allen said in his blog titled "Still Not Convinced" on February 7, 2007. "All of this (global warming alarmism) is designed to get your money and then guilt you in to how you live your life," Allen explained. Allen has the Seal of Approval of the National Weather Association. "As I have stated before, not only do I believe global climate change exists - it has always existed. There have been times of global warming and cooling," Allen concluded. (LINK) "If there is a consensus among scientists about man-made global warming, then at what temperature would they all agree the earth should be before they say global warming no longer exists? The answer - there is not a scientific consensus and will never be. And if there were one, they would not agree as to what temperature the earth needs to be ‘normal' again," Allen wrote in another blog post on June 5, 2007. (LINK)
I betcha none of you have any such evidence!
@parados,
Parados, the issue is ofcourse whether what Chris Allen wrote is correct or not:
Quote:
Meteorologist Chris Allen of Kentucky Fox affiliate WBKO dismissed what he termed "consensus nonsense" on global warming. "But, just because major environmental groups, big media and some politicians are buying this hook, line and sinker doesn't mean as a TV weatherperson I am supposed to act as a puppy on a leash and follow along," Allen said in his blog titled "Still Not Convinced" on February 7, 2007. "All of this (global warming alarmism) is designed to get your money and then guilt you in to how you live your life," Allen explained. Allen has the Seal of Approval of the National Weather Association. "As I have stated before, not only do I believe global climate change exists - it has always existed. There have been times of global warming and cooling," Allen concluded. (LINK) "If there is a consensus among scientists about man-made global warming, then at what temperature would they all agree the earth should be before they say global warming no longer exists? The answer - there is not a scientific consensus and will never be. And if there were one, they would not agree as to what temperature the earth needs to be ‘normal' again," Allen wrote in another blog post on June 5, 2007. (LINK)
@ican711nm,
No, it's NOT ican.. Let me quote you....
If you want to claim this a prominent scientist than the first issue is whether he actually is one or not.
We don't get to country or objection until after you claimed he was a prominent scientist.
@MontereyJack,
Quote:You ought to know by now that there are several others: water vapor, methane, and stratospheric ozone among them, as well as CO2.
Of those, CO2 is the hardest to prove. The easiest is water vapour. When you walk into a green house, what are you first aware of ....the water vapour or the CO2 ? Water vapour makes it harder for the plants to transpire....CO2 makes it easier for them to respire.
Quote:CO2 is released from the oceans as temperature rises,
Tell us about the other gases that are released...I would hate to think you are loading your argument with bias.
@MontereyJack,
Quote:Inhofe claims the support of prominent scientists, one of whom has no scientific credentials. One wonders how many others on the list are without credentials like Chris Allen.
Unlike the Global Warming Thuggees who very scientifically demand everyone believe, them refuse to hand over information and threaten anyone who disagrees.
@parados,
Quote:The issue is whether Chris Allen is a "prominent scientist".
The issue is Global Warming. Are you saying there are no prominet scientists who disagree with the Thuggees and Global Warming ?
@Ionus,
I am saying there aren't 400 on Inhofe's list.
@ican711nm,
Parados, the issue is OF COURSE whether what Chris Allen wrote is correct or not.
Quote:
Meteorologist Chris Allen of Kentucky Fox affiliate WBKO dismissed what he termed "consensus nonsense" on global warming. "But, just because major environmental groups, big media and some politicians are buying this hook, line and sinker doesn't mean as a TV weatherperson I am supposed to act as a puppy on a leash and follow along," Allen said in his blog titled "Still Not Convinced" on February 7, 2007. "All of this (global warming alarmism) is designed to get your money and then guilt you in to how you live your life," Allen explained. Allen has the Seal of Approval of the National Weather Association. "As I have stated before, not only do I believe global climate change exists - it has always existed. There have been times of global warming and cooling," Allen concluded. (LINK) "If there is a consensus among scientists about man-made global warming, then at what temperature would they all agree the earth should be before they say global warming no longer exists? The answer - there is not a scientific consensus and will never be. And if there were one, they would not agree as to what temperature the earth needs to be ‘normal' again," Allen wrote in another blog post on June 5, 2007. (LINK)
The issue is not whether or not Meteorologist Chris Allen in particular, one of 462 writers in the group of over 400 prominent scientists, is alleged to be a prominent scientist per:
@ican711nm,
2 points:
1, the dude certainly isn't a 'prominent scientist.' He's not even a scientist.
2, there's nothing to prove correct or incorrect about the piece you posted; all he does is give his OPINION. Which, as he isn't a scientist, is an uninformed one.
Cycloptichorn
@ican711nm,
Quote:The issue is not whether or not Meteorologist Chris Allen in particular, o
He isn't a meteorologist ican. He is a TV weatherman. He reads the weather. He has no formal training in weather forecasting.
Why do you call him something he isn't?
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote: all he does is give his OPINION. Which, as he isn't a scientist, is an uninformed one.
You have made a rather silly assumption. Show us how much he knows. How do you know he doesnt have a very well informed opinion ?
@parados,
Parados, Cycloptichorn, Cicerone, et al,
What evidence do you have that anything Chris Allen wrote below is false?
Quote:Meteorologist Chris Allen of Kentucky Fox affiliate WBKO dismissed what he termed "consensus nonsense" on global warming. "But, just because major environmental groups, big media and some politicians are buying this hook, line and sinker doesn't mean as a TV weatherperson I am supposed to act as a puppy on a leash and follow along," Allen said in his blog titled "Still Not Convinced" on February 7, 2007. "All of this (global warming alarmism) is designed to get your money and then guilt you in to how you live your life," Allen explained. Allen has the Seal of Approval of the National Weather Association. "As I have stated before, not only do I believe global climate change exists - it has always existed. There have been times of global warming and cooling," Allen concluded. (LINK) "If there is a consensus among scientists about man-made global warming, then at what temperature would they all agree the earth should be before they say global warming no longer exists? The answer - there is not a scientific consensus and will never be. And if there were one, they would not agree as to what temperature the earth needs to be ‘normal' again," Allen wrote in another blog post on June 5, 2007. (LINK)
