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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 04:16 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack, what is your evidence that Ernst-George Becker is not a "noted researcher" as the list characterized him?

What is your evidence that if Ernst-George Becker is not a "noted researcher" as the list characterized him, then the entire list of 463 is bogus?

In particular, what is your evidence that if Ernst-George Becker is not a "noted researcher" as the list characterized him, then "ican's #308" is bogus?

If you do not have such evidence, then you havd fouled out!
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 04:22 pm
@ican711nm,
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
309
Meteorologist Jim Ott, formerly of WTMJ-TV in Wisconsin, a member of the American Meteorological Society and a former lecturer at University of Wisconsin, expressed climate skepticism in 2007 of climate fears. "There is no question that the past 25 years have been warmer than average. There is also no question that background levels of carbon dioxide, or CO2, in the atmosphere have shown a slow but steady increase since the late 1950s, when measurements were begun in a remote spot in the Hawaiian Islands. That is where the certainty ends and the questions really begin," Ott, who hold a masters of science, wrote on February 10, 2007. "Evidence buried deeper in the Earth suggests that there may have been four major glaciations in North America, with each period of cooling followed by warming. Theories abound about why the climate changed enough to form the glaciers and then to melt them, but the fact is no one knows for sure what caused those climate changes. One thing we do know: It wasn't anything that humans did. And if we really don't know the answers, isn't it possible that the same factors that caused those climate changes could become active again?" he wrote. "More questions: If CO2 levels have been increasing since the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century, as many scientists surmise, why have we seen some major changes in weather patterns over that time period that don't fit the global warming theory? For example, why were the 1930s much warmer than the 1960s? And why were some of our most severe winters in the late 1970s and early 1980s? Weren't CO2 levels rising during those times? Obviously, other factors besides man have an impact on climate," he added. "If we conclude that from now on only human activity can affect climate change, we are ignoring factors that we don't understand. Could we be in for some unexpected surprises if we assume that the Earth's climate will only get warmer in the coming decades?" he wrote. "Assuming that 25 years of warmer-than-average weather constitutes a long-term, irreversible climate change ignores other periods of anomalous weather that were only temporary. Assuming that human activity is the only factor that will affect the Earth's climate, and that what is happening now will continue in the future, leaves some big questions unanswered," he concluded. (LINK)

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 04:30 pm
@parados,
Quote:
3. You have ignored the fact that the Clean Air Act reduced pollutants drastically


Yes, but you have ignored the fact that Clean Air Acts were introduced to prevent gasping in certain weather conditions and not during gales.

Much like traffic regulations are mainly for the rush hour.

What were the weather conditions like when the measurements were taken to come to your other conclusions?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 05:31 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Much like traffic regulations are mainly for the rush hour.

You don't drive much, do you spendi?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 05:35 pm
@parados,
Not a great deal. Cars are a nuisance.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 05:37 pm
@spendius,
It was obvious you don't drive when you made this statement.

Quote:
Much like traffic regulations are mainly for the rush hour.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 05:43 pm
@parados,
I don't know that my statement signifies that.
0 Replies
 
Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 12:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
What issue was it, what page?


January 1970 Walter. As for the date and page number, I don't know but who gives a ****.
It was nearly 40 freaking years ago for F**k sake.
Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 12:53 am
@parados,
Quote:
1. You have given no evidence that this was actual science
2. You have ignored evidence of masks being worn in cities because of pollution.
3. You have ignored the fact that the Clean Air Act reduced pollutants drastically from the 1970s by setting standards that cities had to meet in the US. Clean air standards required the reduction of pollutants from automobiles. Since 1970, pollutants from automobile emissions have been more than cut in half despite there being more vehicles on the road


1. No matter who I would quote it would not satisfy you. Remember you said your scientists were better than mine so it would be a waste of time.
2. The face masks are irrelevant. The dangerous part of smog is CO, not CO2.
CO2 is not a poison. A face mask won't filter out Carbon Monoxide.
3. The clean air act did clean up the smog (the visible pollution), but we are talking about the claim that man made CO2 is causing global warming.

There will be a disproportionately influential group of doomsters predicting that the future,and the present,never looked so bleak.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 01:12 am
@Adanac,
Well, I mean if you quote from it you really should know. (And it would be easier for me to look for in the library.)
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 01:14 am
ican, Becker is not a "noted researcher" because he has done no research, certainly none in climate science. The only thing he has done is a literature search, of the research others did in the 19th and early 20th century. He doesn't even seem to have examined the literature criticallly. the point has been made that CO2 swings of the magnitude that he says those studies show, in the time between those studies, violates everything physicists know about the behavior of CO2 in the atmosphere. He does not examine the known limitations of 19th century equipment and technique. His "research" is nonexistent, his analysis of the literature heagglomerated was nonexistent. He's not a scientist. He's not a researcher. He's a flake.

McIntryre wasn't talking about the globe. He was talking about the US.

Those are the two sources #308 bases his conclusions on. One spoke crap. The other didn't say what #308 says he did. That's why #308 is another of Morano's many weak reeds to lean on, and outright flakes (like Becker).

TV weatherpeople aren't scientists. Economists aren't scientists. Becker's not a scientist. The people who have some claim to being scientists on the list who misinterpret evidence (like what McIntyre said), and don't look at the quality of the work they cite (like citing Becker), come to conclusions that are little better than nonsense.

parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:09 am
@Adanac,
1. The quote you posted was not a complete quote.. parts were left out. I am curious what the rest of the quote is. I am not satisfied with partial quotes and no reference to the science. Complete quotes with references to scientific journals would allow me to check for responses and criticisms.
2. CO was reduced by the clean air act and the implementation of catalytic converters. I doubt any science projected that a reduction in CO would cause people to wear gas masks. This shows how dishonest your argument is.
3. You were talking about SMOG from a 1970 Life article. You referenced CO in your point #2.

All you have done is shown that science CAN reduce pollutants with the help of government regulations. That would be an argument FOR government regulation of CO2.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:12 am
@Adanac,
Adanac wrote:

Quote:
What issue was it, what page?


January 1970 Walter. As for the date and page number, I don't know but who gives a ****.
It was nearly 40 freaking years ago for F**k sake.

You must have given a **** since you quoted it as if it had some merit. When we question the source so we can check it you suddenly don't care about it? Wow.. You really don't understand science. You prefer to throw stuff out, demand we don't look at it and then pretend it disproves science.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
He did a cut and paste from a Hertitage Foundation piece.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 08:31 am
@blatham,
I knew and noticed it - it's "quoted" in some blogs as well. Wink
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 11:38 am
@MontereyJack,
Many meteorologists are or were also scientists.
Quote:

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=scientists&x=21&y=6
Main Entry: sci·en·tist
...
1 : one learned in science and especially natural science : a scientific investigator <what distinguishes the scientist is his ability to state problems, to frame questions, so that the technicians can make the machines yield facts that are significant ... >

Quote:

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=science&x=17&y=6
Main Entry: sci·ence
...
1 a : possession of knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding : knowledge as a personal attribute <I speak from science and the voice is fate -- Alexander Pope> b : knowledge possessed or attained through study or practice <science crown my age -- Thomas Gray>
2 a : a branch or department of systematized knowledge that is or can be made a specific object of study <the basic tool sciences of reading, writing, and ciphering> <learned in the science of theology> b : something (as a sport or technique) that may be studied or learned like systematized knowledge <skilled in the science of evading work> <little interested in cards and such like science>: as (1) obsolete : a trained skill (as in an occupation) (2) : FENCING (3) : BOXING c : studies mainly in the works of ancient and modern philosophers formerly taught as a group or field of specialization (as at Oxford University) d : any of the individual subjects taught at an educational institution in one of the departments of natural science <required to take two sciences to complete a minor> <students majoring in a science> -- compare HUMANITY 3c
3 a : accumulated and accepted knowledge that has been systematized and formulated with reference to the discovery of general truths or the operation of general laws : knowledge classified and made available in work, life, or the search for truth : comprehensive, profound, or philosophical knowledge; especially : knowledge obtained and tested through use of the scientific method b : such knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena : NATURAL SCIENCE
4 : a branch of study that is concerned with observation and classification of facts and especially with the establishment or strictly with the quantitative formulation of verifiable general laws chiefly by induction and hypotheses <mathematical science>
5 : a system based or purporting to be based upon scientific principles : a method (as of arrangement, functioning) reconciling practical or utilitarian ends with scientific laws <husbandry is a science> <a student of culinary science>
...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10:58 pm
"Recently I was foolish enough to try to reason with an environmentalist. But it became obvious that he had his mind made up and didn't want to hear any evidence to the contrary. The Pope is more likely to have read Karl Marx than an environmentalist is to have read even a single book that criticized environmentalism."--Thomas Sowell
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 11:00 pm
@Foxfyre,
Eh, so this is a thread against environmentalism by now?

(And Sowell obviously doesn't know that Pope Bendict lectured at university and wrote about Karl Marx.)
Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Aug, 2009 12:14 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
"Recently I was foolish enough to try to reason with an environmentalist. But it became obvious that he had his mind made up and didn't want to hear any evidence to the contrary. The Pope is more likely to have read Karl Marx than an environmentalist is to have read even a single book that criticized environmentalism."--Thomas Sowell


I hope you can quote the date, book title, page number, and paragraph Foxfyre, to satisfy Walter.
0 Replies
 
Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Aug, 2009 12:33 am
@parados,
Quote:
I am not satisfied with partial quotes and no reference to the science.

parados, you are not satisfied with any quotes unless they are yours and
the science suits your views.
Quote:
I doubt any science projected that a reduction in CO would cause people to wear gas masks. This shows how dishonest your argument is.

A reduction in CO cause people to wear gas masks ?
What on earth are you on about ?
Quote:
All you have done is shown that science CAN reduce pollutants with the help of government regulations. That would be an argument FOR government regulation of CO2.

I have never argued against reduction of pollutants. But CO2 is not a pollutant. It was never a driver of climate change in the past, why now ?
CO2 is that fizzy stuff in your beer or soda, so by your reasoning you are drinking pollution.


 

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