McTag wrote:husker wrote:Does the rotation of the earth (slowing) have anything to do with global warming?
I imagine that the fraction of a second more warming time on the sunny side is cancelled out by the same extra cooling time on the shady side.
You might need to rethink that
I read someplace that the slowing of the earth's rotation does increase global warming. The example given was analogous to the braking of a car; the brake pads heat up to slow the car.
Got some catch up reading to do here. Will respond in more detail later. I heard someone on the radio recently saying (refering to climate change) that its not so much that the supertanker takes an awful long while to change direction, but that its gonna be empty by the time it gets there.
i.e. why worry about burning oil and gas when soon there wont be the oil and gas to burn.
Regarding the Toyota Prius, i will probably buy one. (Just thought that would give a boost to Toyota share price)
Steve, I think Toyota is a good choice, but I also think Honda is a better one.
cicerone imposter wrote:Steve, I think Toyota is a good choice, but I also think Honda is a better one.
I'm looking at the different options now. The Chev Van still needs to be used at times, but mainly can be parked. I have a wheelchair lift on the van, but JayBea doesn't really go out anymore, so I just need something to whip around in.
Anon
cicerone imposter wrote:I read someplace that the slowing of the earth's rotation does increase global warming. The example given was analogous to the braking of a car; the brake pads heat up to slow the car.
That type of heat generation requires friction. No analogy that I can see.
Not exactly that analogy, but...
Changes in the Earth's Rotation are in the Wind
March 4, 2003
Because of Earth's dynamic climate, winds and atmospheric pressure systems experience constant change. These fluctuations may affect how our planet rotates on its axis, according to NASA-funded research that used wind and satellite data. NASA's Earth Science Enterprise (ESE) mission is to understand the Earth system and its response to natural and human-induced changes for better prediction of climate, weather and natural hazards, such as atmospheric changes or El Niño events that may have contributed to the affect on Earth's rotation. "Changes in the atmosphere, specifically atmospheric pressure around the world, and the motions of the winds that may be related to such climate signals as El Niño are strong enough that their effect is observed in the Earth's rotation signal," said David A. Salstein, an atmospheric scientist from Atmospheric and Environmental Research, Inc., of Lexington, Mass., who led a recent study.
Another perspective about slowing rotation.
Days Just Drag
New Scientist, July 3, 1999
Global Warming is slowing the Earth down. A study of changes in wind patterns linked to global warming over the past 50 years suggests they are slowing the planet's daily spin by around half a millisecond every century. These effects open up a new way of tracking the progress of global warming without the uncertainties in simple temperature measurements.
Ocean currents associated with El Niño are already known to make equatorial winds blow faster and boost the angular momentum of the atmosphere. Momentum must be conserved, so the atmosphere steals momentum from the Earth's rotation, making it spin more slowly. Satellite observations showed that last year's El Niño made days drag on by an extra 0.4 milliseconds (This Week, 4 April 1998, p 21).
Climate experts have suspected that steady global warming might have a similar effect. Computer models of the effects of warming point to the appearance of jets of fast-moving wind between the troposphere and stratosphere, roughly 12 kilometres above the Earth's surface. These would also boost the angular momentum of the atmosphere, triggering a compensating slowing down in the Earth.
Now Rodrigo Abarca del Rio of the French space agency's Toulouse Space Centre has looked for direct evidence of this. Over the past 50 years, the Earth's average temperature has been increasing by around 0.79 °C per century.
Using wind data for the same period from the US National Centers for Atmospheric Research and Environmental Prediction, Abarca del Rio calculated the angular momentum of the atmosphere. He found it had increased in step with the temperature rise (Annales Geophysicae, vol 17, p 806). "There has also been a net loss in angular momentum by the solid Earth," he says. "The data suggest that global warming has caused a slowdown of the Earth at a rate of 0.56 milliseconds a century."
This implies that global warming is responsible for almost one-third of the slowing down in the Earth's spin scientists have measured. It also suggests that the length of the day could provide a means of monitoring global warming in future. Every 0.1 °C increase should produce a slowdown of 0.07 milliseconds, which is easy to measure.
However, Abarca del Rio says too many other complex effects influence the Earth's spin, such as movement of molten rock beneath its surface. Instead, he suggests using records on atmospheric angular momentum, which have been kept since the mid-1970s. "Records of surface air temperature have been the main measure of global warming," says Abarca del Rio. "Measurements of atmospheric angular momentum may be an easier and more reliable way."
Masaki Satoh, a climate modeller at Saitama Institute of Technology in Japan, agrees that the results could provide a new and better way to monitor global warming. "Atmospheric angular momentum is increased by the El Niño event, so it is reasonable that it should also increase with global warming."
Well that shows my simplistic analysis was wrong.
Strange, that's the first time I have been wrong since 1958.
:wink:
McTag wrote:Well that shows my simplistic analysis was wrong.
Strange, that's the first time I have been wrong since 1958.
:wink:
was then when you were born or married?
McT, You're error rate is impressive. I make mistakes or have been wrong so often, I've lost count many decades ago.
Walter Hinteler's post might be useful if they were really needed. Maybe such innovations might be in a nonproductive country like Germany where the Socialist Unions have made it impossible for German goods to be competitive with other nations in the world market place, But it is clear that Walter Hinteler does not know much about the alleged "global warming" which is supposed to be the reason for all these unproven and expensive attempt at unneeded solutions.
It is apparent that he is not in possession of the facts.
He apparently is not aware that:
l. Surface temperatures on the earth have varied throughout the centuries. The Medieval Warm Period manifested warmer temperatures than today without the benefit of co2 produced by man.
2. The US Senate decisively voted against acceptance of the Kyoto Protocol in July 1997 with a DECISIVE vote of 95-0. One of the major sticking points was that the C02 emissions of China and India were not to be cut back because they were both classified as "developing countries
3. The National Academy of Sciences published its report in 2001 and found that a large portion of the research on "global warming" could only be classified as 'UNCERTAIN"
4. There was a strong surface warming between 1890 and 1940 followed by a pronounced cooling between 1940 and 1970( and warnings of a catasthropic ice age to come) then rising tempertures from 1970 to today.
Since CO2 emissions were insignificant in the early 20th century, it is a puzzle why substantial warming happened anyway. It could have been due to natural causes of Climate Change.
5. Recent warming trends have been measured only on the earth's surface. There are major uncertainties connected with those trends, one of which is the heat island effect. The important point is that satellite measurements do not show the warming trends.
6. The Academy pointed out a serious problem with the theories concerning global warming. They noted that "The nature and magnitude of hydrological feedbacks give rise to the LARGEST SOURCE OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT CLIMATE SENSITIVITY since all of the computer models assume that water vapor will amplify the small bit of warming expected from an increase of carbon dioxide concentration in the air. If that assumption is untrue and the theories of Richard Lindzen, perhaps the US's foremost professor of Meterology at MIT hold true, then the thoery of global warming falls apart.
Dr. Lindzen holds that clouds tend to reduce much of the warming expected fromCO2 since he states that cirrus clouds act as thermostats. Dr, Lindzen points out that both clouds and water vapor-EACH MORE IMPORTANT IN THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT THAN CO2 ARE SIMPLY NOT WELL ENOUGH UNDERSTOOD BY CLIMATOLOGISTS.
7. The National Academy of Sciences points out that without computer models there would be no evidence of global warming, no Kyoto. By simulating the climate on giant, ultra fast computers, scholars try to learn just how it will react to new stimulus--like a doubling of CO2. The NSA points out that AN IDEAL COMPUTER MODEL WOULD HAVE TO TRACK FIVE MILLION PARAMETERS OVER THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH AND THROUGH THE ATMOSPHERE AND INCORPORATE ALL RELEVANT INTERACTIONS AMONG LAND, SEA, AIR, ICE AND VEGETATION.
The NAS concludes that "Climate models are imperfect. Their simulation skill is limited by uncertainties in thier formulation, the limited size of their calculations, and the difficulty in interpreting their answers that exhibit as much complexity as in nature"
8. Perhaps, more important, the NAS report highlights the difficulty in understanding NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE. If we can't understand those, then we can't understand the human effect. One of the MAJOR natural component in changing the climate is--the sun. New findings, based on satellite measurements,suggest that the heat emanating from the sun to the earth changes significantly on time scales of decades to centuries. NASA satellites have uncovered the fact that the sun's changing magnetism over the course of its sunspot cycle is accompanied by a change in total energy output. SINCE THE SUN IS AS MAGNETICALLY ACTIVE TODAY AS IT HAS BEEN IN 400 YEARS OF DIRECT TELESCOPE OBSERVATIONS, IT MAY BE THAT THE SUN IS HEATING THE EARTH WITH LITTLE THAT MAN CAN DO ABOUT IT.
Mortkat wrote:Walter Hinteler's post might be useful if they were really needed. Maybe such innovations might be in a nonproductive country like Germany where the Socialist Unions have made it impossible for German goods to be competitive with other nations in the world market place, But it is clear that Walter Hinteler does not know much about the alleged "global warming" which is supposed to be the reason for all these unproven and expensive attempt at unneeded solutions.
Your hateful speech against me now shows your twisted ill mind in a most funny way:
THAT IS AN ARTICLE FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTH IRELAND ABOUT A UK-AFFAIR
My "hateful" speech? That's laughable coming from a person who can do nothing but post HATEFUL comments about my country. Try to find at least something positive to post about the USA. I'll reciprocate>
Hey Massa,
Did you get your monthly check from your kid yet??
Anon
Mortkat wrote:My "hateful" speech? That's laughable coming from a person who can do nothing but post HATEFUL comments about my country. Try to find at least something positive to post about the USA. I'll reciprocate>
This thread, poor man, is about 'Global Warming'.
Not about the USA.
Not about positives about them or other countries.
Come back to the topic, if you found your tablets, have taken them and they've worked.
Walter,
Mortkat considers himself an expert on the subject if I remember right. The fact that Bush has said that it's a problem should be enough for Deadkat, but I guess it isn't this time. Usually if Bush agrees to something, he's slobbering all over it!
Anon
I, not you, posted on Global Warming just four posts back at 12:58. It is you who did not try to rebut it. Go ahead, try. You won't be able to do it.
And as for your comment about "poor man"! I could buy half of the land around you and still have a great deal of money left over. It is not for nothing that the average American has $10,000 more than the average German when GDP is considered. That is why people like you hate America-ENVY-It is not an admirable quality.
