Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

@okie,

Since you don't understand how that tells you the amount of water vapor, you don't understand it.

The data can be found at NCDC but you have to pay for it. I have previously posted the link

1 Reply

@parados,

Here is the information on how to get the data okie....l

Quote:

OVERVIEW

The following is a description of the global surface summary
of day product produced by the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)
in Asheville, NC. The input data used in building these daily
summaries are the Integrated Surface Data (ISD), which includes
global data obtained from the USAF Climatology Center, located
in the Federal Climate Complex with NCDC. The latest daily summary
data are normally available 1-2 days after the date-time of the
observations used in the daily summaries. The online data files begin
with 1929, and are now at the Version 7 software level. Over 9000
stations' data are typically available.

The daily elements included in the dataset (as available from each
station) are:

Mean temperature (.1 Fahrenheit)
Mean dew point (.1 Fahrenheit)
Mean sea level pressure (.1 mb)
Mean station pressure (.1 mb)
Mean visibility (.1 miles)
Mean wind speed (.1 knots)
Maximum sustained wind speed (.1 knots)
Maximum wind gust (.1 knots)
Maximum temperature (.1 Fahrenheit)
Minimum temperature (.1 Fahrenheit)
Precipitation amount (.01 inches)
Snow depth (.1 inches)
Indicator for occurrence of: Fog
Rain or Drizzle
Snow or Ice Pellets
Hail
Thunder
Tornado/Funnel Cloud

For details on the contents of the dataset, see the format
documentation shown below.

The data are available via:
1) WWW -- http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/res40.pl?page=gsod.html
2) FTP -- ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/gsod via browser
3) Command line ftp:

a) Enter: open ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov

b) Login is: ftp

c) Password is: your email address

d) To move to the correct subdirectory, enter:
cd /pub/data/gsod

Do you agree that water vapor can be calculated using the data supplied from the weather stations?

0 Replies

Maybe I missed it, but I don't find the historical numbers or a graph expressing the amount of water vapor present over the last decade or decades or several hundred, thousand, or tens of thousands of years here. Perhaps you could provide the link to that specific data?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Obviously you missed it.

Try reading it again. It includes links and pricing for the data.

What is it with "graphs"? Do you think data doesn't exist unless it is turned into a picture that is posted on the web for you? Half the stuff on the web that is in picture form is crap to begin with. It is usually best to look at the data itself.

2 Replies

@parados,

Very funny, Parados. We already know the global warming modelers mostly assume something, they assume it, not based upon data. You can't show a graph of historical water vapor concentrations and correlate it with temperature, because you apparently have nothing. I am not going to go to NCDC and buy reams of data to calculate myself, that is assinine. I am not going to do your work for you, or the climate modelers. And I am still waiting for your evidence that increased rainfall has no impact on temperatures, as you asserted. I am not going to hold my breath for that data either.

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

Obviously you missed it.

Try reading it again. It includes links and pricing for the data.

What is it with "graphs"? Do you think data doesn't exist unless it is turned into a picture that is posted on the web for you? Half the stuff on the web that is in picture form is crap to begin with. It is usually best to look at the data itself.

I said that I must have missed it. I asked you to provide me a link to the specific data or graph. I didn't suggest that it needed to be a graph. I just thought it would be easier for you to send me to one if it is there. I couldn't find one. Or any analysis of trends of water vapor in the atmosphere at all. Certainly no correlation of water vapor to trend in global warming. Is it there? Please direct me.

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@Foxfyre,

I don't think the information exists, Foxfyre. At least it has never been compiled into a form that tells us anything, not for long enough. We have satellite data, very recent, but not long enough to tell us anything. Again, no expert here, but as yet I have seen nothing significant in terms of a compilation of a historical average of water vapor, worldwide, and correlated with climate.

1 Reply

@okie,

But Okie, Parados posted links as authoritative and proof of his point that the information does exist. I'm assuming that you didn't find it there either? Let's give him a chance to show us where it is. You know that Parados is 100% reliable to not post stuff just to be posting stuff and he wouldn't be blowing any smoke here. (cough) I'm just trying to be fair.

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@Foxfyre,

Can you see this link Fox? I posted it earlier. Obviously you didn't go to it if you want to argue that you didn't see any data.

ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/gsod

I realize the data must be downloaded and unzipped. Perhaps you didn't realize that was how data is usually supplied for the scientific community?

1 Reply

@parados,

Yes I saw it. I clicked on a few of the links beside the dates/years. I don't see anything there comparing water vapor trends to global warming trends, however. Again, if you could refer me to that information, I would be most grateful.

You see the thrust of the debate regarding this was whether the AGW proponents have bothered to do that evaluation. If they have, there must be some data on the internet showing it somewhere. They've posted data--even the pretty pictures--showing all the other stuff they claim as 'proof' of antropogenic global warming.

If they have not, I think even YOU would agree that the scientific models are way way inadequate to make any kind of intelligent evaluation of forces driving global warming, much less any predictions in that regard.

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@Foxfyre,

Have you not been following along Fox?

Water vapor is calculated from temperature and relative humidity. I somehow get the idea you only understand pictures since you don't seem to understand simple math.

Quote:

If they have not, I think even YOU would agree that the scientific models are way way inadequate to make any kind of intelligent evaluation of forces driving global warming, much less any predictions in that regard.

I think the only thing I would agree with is you don't understand basic science. As was explained to ican and okie, an increase in water vapor is factored into the models when humidity stays the same in those models.

1 Reply

@parados,

I don't claim to have the scientific training or knowledge that others here have. But I do know what water vapor is. I check the humidity and dewpoint along with the temperature and forecast every morning before I start my day.

We have graphs and charts and printed data coming out of our ears re:

1) CO2 trapped in ice cores and in the soil and in the oceans and in the atmosphere with comparisons of that and estimated global temperatures.

2) Other green house gasses with comparisons of that and estimated global temperatures.

2) Solar activity estimated and known with comparisons of that and estimated global temperatures.

3) Industrial activity with comparisons of that and estimated global temperatures.

So where are the graphs and charts and/or printed data showing water vapor in the atmosphere and comparing that to estimated global temperatures?

Don't you think that it would be a good thing to have that correlation for a good idea of the big picture whether you are a credential accomplished scientist or just a layperson with an interest like me? You said it was all there in those links, but I can't find it. Is it too much to ask you to provide the specific link that will take me to that specific information?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Start here
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/39/15248.full.pdf

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@parados,

That's very interesting but I want to see the correlation between that and global warming. If we humans are creating extra water vapor, isn't it important to know that we're warming the planet that way and maybe CO2 isn't much if any problem at all? Wouldn't that change the way the global efforts are targeted to combat global warming a whole bunch?

So where is the correlation between water vapor and global warming that you assured us was in those links you provided?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

So where are the graphs and charts

Wow.. You are a one trick pony, aren't you Fox.

Do you agree that I posted a link to the data? Yes or No?

1 Reply

@parados,

No. I asked for graphs or charts OR DATA showing the correlation between water vapor and global warming. You said or at least implied it was there by posting the links when we asked for it. I can't find that in the links you provided so please direct me to it.

If nobody has drawn or written about such a correlation with supporting data, then just say so. And we can stop this silliness right now.

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@Foxfyre,

What is interesting Fox is how you managed to read a 6 page technical paper in less than 3 minutes and were able to comment on it as if you know what is and isn't in it.

Would you care to summarize the paper for us since you read it?

Did you pay particular attention to the 100 year "graph" on water vapor?

1 Reply

@parados,

Please provide the link to the 100 year graph. I thought you were ridiculing my asking for a graph so I am pleased that you are offering one anyway. I would be really happy to see the graph. Could you kindly post the link to it?

I fully admit that I lack the expertise to do the science myself. So I'm depending on you who are wise in the way of science to educate me. All I want to know is whether the AGW proponents have done the exhaustive work on plotting water vapor in correlation to global warming as they have done for the other factors I have listed. If they have, I would like to see the side by side correlation just as they have done for all the other factors.

Is that too much to ask? If it is, just say so, and we'll move on. You said it was there in those links you've provided. I just want you to tell me where it is because I obviously lack the navigating skills on a website to locate it.

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@Foxfyre,

Here is the link to my post
http://able2know.org/topic/44061-646#post-3612957

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

To help out with that, here are the links you've provided so far that you said contained the requested information:

Quote:

The data are available via:
1) WWW -- http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/res40.pl?page=gsod.html
2) FTP -- ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/gsod via browser
3) Command line ftp:

a) Enter: open ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov

b) Login is: ftp

c) Password is: your email address

d) To move to the correct subdirectory, enter:
cd /pub/data/gsod

You zeroed in on this one:

Quote:

ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/gsod

And then after repeated requests you provided this link which appears to be something different:

Quote:

http://www.pnas.org/content/104/39/15248.full.pdf

2 Replies

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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