Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Quote:
For some reason Foxfyre (on whose post you were commenting to begin with, even though your attention span seems to have suffered a precipitous drop necessitating repetitions ad nauseam) understood my English just fine. Try re-reading

Looks like a classic ad hominem to me. No attempt to address the issue and a personal attack followed by the change of subject.

Quote:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

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@parados,

I find many occasions on a2k where ad hominems are justified and appropriate - especially against individuals who seem to offer their personal opinions without any regard to facts and evidence, or even common knowledge.

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@parados,

I wouldn't start such a discussion with High Seas, parados, if I were you: she certainly knows all about Schopenhauer's 'Art of Being Right' - most probably even could quote in the original German from "Die Kunst, Recht zu Behalten" Wink

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, is there a possibility of short memories in regard to ski conditions? I have noticed in the business world that businesses are now designed, and I think ski resorts may be a good example, they are designed so that all things must be at optimum in order to survive, they do not plan for down times or the possibility of shortened seasons, but perhaps shortened seasons are possibly not a new phenomena? For example, I remember skiing in the 70's and 80's and the snow did not always cooperate, ski areas closed early or opened late, but when that happens now, it is chalked up to something unusual,such as global warming.

Also is my memory not accurate, I thought 2 or 3 years ago and maybe last year the snow was phenomonally good or exceptional in some parts of Europe? And this report doesn't look altogether dismal at all, in fact pretty good?

"After a week of great skiing and snowboarding conditions across most ski destinations of Europe, the weather, as well as skiing and snowboarding conditions across European winter resorts can be now separated into 2 halves: the eastern part of the Alps, including Austria and some ski areas of Italy, is pretty dry but still the temperatures are low. The ski region of Arlberg is predicted to see the largest amount of fresh snow of the Austrian winter resorts. The French Alps are forecast to receive around half metre of new snow next days. "

http://www.europe-trips.eu/

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Also is my memory not accurate, I thought 2 or 3 years ago and maybe last year the snow was phenomonally good or exceptional in some parts of Europe? And this report doesn't look altogether dismal at all, in fact pretty good?

"After a week of great skiing and snowboarding conditions across most ski destinations of Europe, the weather, as well as skiing and snowboarding conditions across European winter resorts can be now separated into 2 halves: the eastern part of the Alps, including Austria and some ski areas of Italy, is pretty dry but still the temperatures are low. The ski region of Arlberg is predicted to see the largest amount of fresh snow of the Austrian winter resorts. The French Alps are forecast to receive around half metre of new snow next days. "

http://www.europe-trips.eu/

okie,

• my memory works quite good. That of our meteorological services is even better.

• though I said nothing about the Alpine regions but only about the low mountain range, your response doesn't contradict that there wasn't a lot of snow. (Two SIL's and there families live in in the Austrian high mountain region, cousins of mine in lower parts - they've similar experiences as we've here.)

• some dozens of international ski events had to be cancelled or postponed due to lack of snow (or due to too much sudden snow) in the last couple of years.

• if my memory and that of the FIS (Fédération Internationale de Ski) isn't wrong - such happened only during the last couple of years.

But of course I can be wrong, after all your source is written in bold.

(Oh, and out of the 80 or ski lifts in our local mountains here, more than 50 are running this weekend [but it wasn't cold enough for the snow canons].)

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These folks must be really posh. Fancy knowing all that about ski-ing conditions.

I understood they were pretty bloody horrendous until you got into the bunkhouse for the piss-up.

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Looks like Central England temp for November came in second lowest for the last 10 years, and overall, it looks like if December tracks about what would be expected, according to my calculations, 2008 will come in I will estimate 0.3 C lower than 2007, and will be lower for the year since about 2000, and about the 6th lowest in the last 20 years.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/CR_data/Daily/HadCET_act.txt
http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/HadCET_mon.html

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

These folks must be really posh. Fancy knowing all that about ski-ing conditions.

I really don't mind if we had no snow at all, spendi.
But the in-laws are constantly whining and complaining about the short skiing seasons, and the in papers you read about the suffering tourism industry...

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@okie,

I'm always surprised about these local and regional results. They really fit in your picture, isn't it, okie?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Mitfreude, nicht Mitleiden, macht den Freund.
Friedrich Nietzsche

PS to Walter: Smile

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I'm always surprised about these local and regional results. They really fit in your picture, isn't it, okie?

Well, maybe you would like this article better then?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html

"...
Duffy: "The climate is actually, in one way anyway, more robust than was assumed in the climate models?"

Marohasy: "That's right ... These findings actually aren't being disputed by the meteorological community. They're having trouble digesting the findings, they're acknowledging the findings, they're acknowledging that the data from NASA's Aqua satellite is not how the models predict, and I think they're about to recognise that the models really do need to be overhauled and that when they are overhauled they will probably show greatly reduced future warming projected as a consequence of carbon dioxide."

Duffy: "From what you're saying, it sounds like the implications of this could beconsiderable ..."

Marohasy: "That's right, very much so. The policy implications are enormous. The meteorological community at the moment is really just coming to terms with the output from this NASA Aqua satellite and (climate scientist) Roy Spencer's interpretation of them. His work is published, his work is accepted, but I think people are still in shock at this point."

If Marohasy is anywhere near right about the impending collapse of the global warming paradigm, life will suddenly become a whole lot more interesting.

A great many founts of authority, from the Royal Society to the UN, most heads of government along with countless captains of industry, learned professors, commentators and journalists will be profoundly embarrassed. Let us hope it is a prolonged and chastening experience.

With catastrophe off the agenda, for most people the fog of millennial gloom will lift, at least until attention turns to the prospect of the next ice age. Among the better educated, the sceptical cast of mind that is the basis of empiricism will once again be back in fashion. The delusion that by recycling and catching public transport we can help save the planet will quickly come to be seen for the childish nonsense it was all along.

....

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@okie,

Well, okie, what else should the 'owner' of this think tank, the Australian Environment Foundation which she says was born out of frustration with the current direction of environment groups, say?

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To revisit this graph, just noticing how sharp the rise in temperature and CO2 is, also the decline somewhat more gradual, and that CO2 generally follows temperature, not the other way around. But with a graph measured in thousands of years, its all just a guess, but at least it shows us something. It does remind us that temperature may be driving CO2, not the other way around.

I am waiting for the CO2 monitoring to show a surprise one of these years, especially if temperature does indeed reverse course in dramatic fashion. It does seem to have plateaued out over the last 10 years.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Vostok-ice-core-petit.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vostok-ice-core-petit.png

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@okie,

There's something interesting about that chart okie. Notice how high CO2 is at any given time on it.

Now check out the current CO2
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

Or better yet, check out this chart which includes today

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png

The CO2 certainly isn't a result of a natural cycle.

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@parados,

Well, actually it is a chart, covering a period of 420,000 years, from the Vostok Ice Core, Antarctica.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

There's something interesting about that chart okie. Notice how high CO2 is at any given time on it.

Now check out the current CO2
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

Or better yet, check out this chart which includes today

The CO2 certainly isn't a result of a natural cycle.

I already noticed that, Parados. However, I don't think we know for sure yet what is driving what. Magnitude appears to be different, but we do not yet have enough data to confirm anything in my opinion. That is why I am very interested in what CO2 does in the next few years, I may die before it switches direction, if it does? But given what we know contributes to CO2, I am not at all convinced that it is proven that all of the rise is man caused, and I am far from the only one that thinks that way, as has been discussed forever here. What we do know, apart from magnitude, without man, the curves had some pretty definitive cycles, it was far from flat. And we also know that CO2 was apparently much much higher in geologic history, before man even apparently came on the scene.

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@okie,

Apparently the CO2 emitted into the atmosphere by humans is not doing its alleged job adequately in Louisiana to increase temperatures and prevent heavy snow falls that previously rarely--if at all--occurred there.

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Please tell me the number of you that have seen the light and are aware
Global Warming is nothing more than a well thought out scam is growing.

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@H2O MAN,

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

As of December 20, 2007, over 400 prominent scientists--not a minority of those scientists who have published their views on global warming--from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

THE DISSENTS OF THE SCIENTIFIC DISSENTERS

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report

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@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

Apparently the CO2 emitted into the atmosphere by humans is not doing its alleged job adequately in Louisiana to increase temperatures and prevent heavy snow falls that previously rarely--if at all--occurred there.

You don't understand, ican. Global warming causes more unstable weather, so you will now see snow where it rarely occurs. Heads they win, tails you lose in this argument. No matter what happens, heat waves or blizzards, it is due to global warming, got that?

1 Reply

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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