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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 03:56 am
Nah, Spendi probably thinks Hoover Dam is completely invalid because they built it without referring to Spengler even once.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 06:08 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
In 1827, Hungarian Anyos Jedlik started experimenting with electromagnetic rotating devices which he called electromagnetic self-rotors. In the prototype of the single-pole electric starter (finished between 1852 and 1854) both the stationary and the revolving parts were electromagnetic. He formulated the concept of the dynamo at least 6 years before Siemens and Wheatstone but didn't patent it as he thought he wasn't the first to realize this. In essence the concept is that instead of permanent magnets, two electromagnets opposite to each other induce the magnetic field around the rotor. Jedlik's invention was decades ahead of its time.


Once you have that the giant dams are inevitable as soon as the capacity to build them is available and the political will exists to choose to do so.

Spengler looks into these social processes which he sees as inevitable. I predict that once there is world government and an orderly reduction in population the hydro-electric production of usable energy will dominate the world with giant schemes in mountainous, unpopulated areas of the world all connected up, much as the internet is, to where we choose to live.

"Ghosts of 'lectricity howl in the bones of her face." Bob Dylan.

"Idiot wind, blowin' in a circle round my skull
From the Grand Coulee Dam to the Capitol." Bob Dylan.

"Her pleasure knows no limits
Her voice is like a meadow lark
Her heart is like an ocean
Mysterious and dark." Bob Dylan.

"Man makes destiny--woman is destiny." Oswald Spengler.

We are Faustians. We have a pact with devilish forces. And with no soul we have nothing to lose.

"We're going all the way till the wheels fall off and burn." Bob Dylan.

"This is all a big mistake." Bob Dylan.

"Something's outa whack." Bob Dylan.

okie wrote-

Quote:
If we were not meant to do all of this, our brains would not allow us to do it.


Spiro Agnew said something to that effect. He used "God" instead of "our brains" which amounts to the same thing.

Anyway- what is necessity except invention's Mom?

The argument, as I said, is about careers, pork and looking good. Or, if you like, avoiding the blue collar. A dynamite proposition as Veblen explained. And that necessity is psychological and inevitable (destined) in a democracy.

You have to laugh.



okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 11:01 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

okie wrote-

Quote:
If we were not meant to do all of this, our brains would not allow us to do it.


Spiro Agnew said something to that effect. He used "God" instead of "our brains" which amounts to the same thing.

I reread what I wrote, and it needs a little revision perhaps, or explanation. Judeo-Christian belief also includes the principle of good and evil, and that man is a free agent to choose between the two, so man can have a brain to do something, and it could be evil, that is our choice. However, I don't think building dams is one of the things that is inherently evil.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 11:21 am
@okie,
But of course 'good' and 'evil' are subjective concepts whether we go with Spengler's philosophy or not. Flooding habitat with the construction of a large dam is viewed as evil by some. Production of electricity to provide a better, healthier, longer life for millions is viewed as noble by some.

The concept of good intentions resulting in unintended bad consequences also applies. So what if we humans were able to reverse climatic changes by rewinding to the stone age. Would the mass starvation, deprivation, untimely deaths, pain, and suffering be worth it? We can't unring the bell of a better life and many of the people would know that it could be better.

Moving forward with increased industrialization, mechanization, and innovation is the hope for countless millions to pull themselves out of generations of abject poverty and unnecessary suffering. Are policies that may or may not have any significant effect on global warming worth denying those people the ability to exploit their natural resources to pull themselves out of poverty as has already been done for all of us?

That is the yin and yang of the debate and why some of us are not willing to accept without questioning the unproved but politically correct stance on this issue.

H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 11:36 am


Finally some happy news... most agree Global Warming is bullshit!
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 01:04 pm
@parados,
Careless wording, Dumbo! Delta temperature was obviously meant - delta can take both positive and negative values. You knew that.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 06:22 pm
@Foxfyre,
If building a dam is evil, then maybe rubbing two stones together to make fire was evil as well? I think it would have to be one and the same, Foxfyre, part of the same scenario of progress.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 09:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre, another point in regard to this issue, trees and other elements of nature can now sue people, so trees are equal to people now in the view of lefties around the world. This will come under something called the Global Environmental Court. No joke. This is a new way to think, a new religion.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/081201-environment-court.html

The United States' dodge of the Kyoto Protocol and other environmental initiatives might no longer go unpunished in the future.

A British judge has proposed an international "supreme legal authority" to rule on environmental issues and punish countries and companies that degrade the environment, according to a news report.

The ruling body " just an idea at this point " would be similar to the International Court of Justice in The Hague.

....


Meanwhile, terrorists are busy bombing, maiming, killing, and they do not seem to care.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 10:11 am
@okie,
Hmmm. I wonder how the international court will go about 'punishing' us?
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 02:16 pm
@Foxfyre,
Trees are going to be our bosses and they will be protected as such by the UN!?Good bye humanity!?

George Orwell in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, Part II, Chapter IX, wrote:

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/
The two aims of the Party are to conquer the whole surface of the earth and to extinguish once and for all the possibility of independent thought. There are therefore two great problems which the Party is concerned to solve. One is how to discover, against his will, what another human being is thinking, and the other is how to kill several hundred million people in a few seconds without giving warning beforehand.

George Orwell in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, Part III, Chapter II, wrote:

[O'brien said,] 'Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.'

George Orwell in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, Part III, Chapter III, wrote:

[O'Brien said,] 'The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you [Winston] begin to understand me?'

parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 02:24 pm
@High Seas,
Thanks for changing the meaning of the English language to try to form an "intelligent" response. Rolling Eyes

Positive has to be the same as negative for your response to make any sense.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 02:31 pm



Meanwhile our nation is experiencing the coldest fall/early winter in 8 years...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 02:46 pm
On that theme, Hamburger? Are you still checking in here now and then? I was wondering what is happening with the ice on your end of the lake this year?

The ski resorts in New Mexico are hoping for more permanent cold weather here soon--I can't say we are colder than we have been for the last several years, at least not yet.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 04:20 pm
@ican711nm,
You must remember ican that George took a particularly dim view of human nature and life in general. Having read a good deal about him, and most of his own stuff, I can well see how he came to such a conclusion.

I was once on the Isle of Islay and I got into conversation in a pub with a tourist who was, on the morrow, going across to Jura to have a shuftie at where George went to get himself pissed off enough to give 1984 full throttle. And pretty impressive it was, I must admit, and your quotes are good examples.

When my tourist acquaintance came back I wouldn't say his hair was stood on end, that would be exaggerating, which is something I refrain from, but he said, a number of times, that it was pretty freaky in a negative direction. I think he had felt some vibe.

Had Eric been gifted with even a modicum of that mysterious allure which attracts the ladies he might well have been a great writer. Even his name can cause a giggle in some circles.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 11:27 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

On that theme, Hamburger? Are you still checking in here now and then? I was wondering what is happening with the ice on your end of the lake this year?

The ski resorts in New Mexico are hoping for more permanent cold weather here soon--I can't say we are colder than we have been for the last several years, at least not yet.

As far as anecdotal evidence, my two cents worth, I used to ski and I still notice ski resorts and how they are doing. I have lived in New Mexico and Colorado. I think traditionally they hope to open by Thanksgiving and then stay open if lucky until about Easter. Some years they do and some years they do not, and this year appears to be about the same for opening. Some in Colorado opened by Thanksgiving weekend, pretty much as usual, I think. Last year I think the snow was very good in most of the ski areas, that was my impression, backed by this following article:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/13/ski-resorts-ride-out-bumps/

"This past year, snow trumped the economy," said Nolan Rosall, president of Boulder research firm RRC Associates and an author of the report. "People found ways to continue in the sport because the conditions were so good."
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 12:38 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

As far as anecdotal evidence, my two cents worth, ...


... the ski season in (nearly) all European ski resorts is shorter than in the past - they can only survive with snow cannons.
(Our local ski resorts - low mountain range - usually had enough snow skiing, ski-jumping, etc and it was cold enough for bob, skeleton, sleigh ...
Now, they've got 80 ski canons and new bob and skeleton runs which can be iced more efficiently.
ALL the European low mountain range areas are together developing plans what to do with their winter resorts when the situation gets even worse - locally, 40 hotels and guesthouses closed the last three years ...)



But of course nothing outside the USA matters here re climate change.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 12:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

But of course nothing outside the USA matters here re climate change.


Delete "re climate change" in above post.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 01:20 pm
@parados,
For some reason Foxfyre (on whose post you were commenting to begin with, even though your attention span seems to have suffered a precipitous drop necessitating repetitions ad nauseam) understood my English just fine. Try re-reading Smile
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 03:08 pm
@High Seas,
Thanks for the ad hominem.

Have a nice day.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 03:22 pm
@parados,
A very nice day to you, too, Parados, and a minor point: "ad hominem" means personal. If the comment is demonstrably factual, however, the correct term is "ad res".
 

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