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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 11:40 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Clinton did the right thing by not approving Kyoto.


Why? Kyoto looks like a good plan to me.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 11:52 am
Kyoto was not good for the US, because it would impose greater restrictions on the US than more poluting countries like China where environment impact by polution is worse. For Kyoto to work, it must be "fair." Kyoto was not fair.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 11:56 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Kyoto was not good for the US, because it would impose greater restrictions on the US than more poluting countries like China where environment impact by polution is worse. For Kyoto to work, it must be "fair." Kyoto was not fair.


But I don't see how those restrictions would harm us. We could switch over to nuclear power and sell off our pollution credits to help pay down the national debt.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 11:59 am
The US has many laws that outlaw polution, but China has none to little. We can increase our laws to lessen polution more, but it will be at the expense of our economy and world competiveness. That's the reason why Clinton did the right thing to refuse Kyoto as written.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 12:02 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
We can increase our laws to lessen polution more, but it will be at the expense of our economy and world competiveness.


Not if we build a lot more nuclear power plants.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 12:04 pm
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 12:17 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Kyoto is unfair to U.S.
By S. Fred Singer
In July 1997, the Senate voted 95-0 for a resolution opposing any international treaty that would damage the economy by restricting energy usage, raising the cost of fuels for transportation, heating and electricity.


It wouldn't restrict any energy that was derived from nuclear power.



cicerone imposter wrote:
Yet, ironically, Russia's parliament will likely ratify it before the year's end, making Kyoto binding on all ratifiers. Why? The reason may be short-term economic gain, as the protocol permits selling Russia's unused emission rights to Europeans anxious to ease the economic penalties of Kyoto's restrictions.


If we switched most of our power generation over to nuclear power, we too would have unused emission rights that we could then sell to other countries.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 12:27 pm
There's a bigger problem for the US. We represent a very small percentage of the world population, but consume the greatest amount of energy. This problem cannot be solved by just building more nuclear plants. The world still has a big problem disposing of spent rods for nuclear plants.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 01:05 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
There's a bigger problem for the US. We represent a very small percentage of the world population, but consume the greatest amount of energy.


I don't see how that is a problem.



cicerone imposter wrote:
The world still has a big problem disposing of spent rods for nuclear plants.


That's no problem. Just extract all the actinides and use them to fuel a fast neutron reactor.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 01:18 pm
"I don't see how that is a problem." I will disagree. There is a finite supply of fossil fuels in this world, as we produce more and more vehicles that uses it.


"That's no problem. Just extract all the actinides and use them to fuel a fast neutron reactor."
If what you say is true, why haven't we done so?
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 01:38 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"I don't see how that is a problem." I will disagree. There is a finite supply of fossil fuels in this world, as we produce more and more vehicles that uses it.


We can use nuclear power to separate hydrogen from seawater, and use hydrogen as fuel.



cicerone imposter wrote:
"That's no problem. Just extract all the actinides and use them to fuel a fast neutron reactor."
If what you say is true, why haven't we done so?


Because the anti-nuclear crowd throws a tantrum.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 01:49 pm
I'm a bit wary of the use of nuclear power. It's a potential terrorist target, the waste is a headache to dispose of, where are you going to get the radioactive materials in the first place and furthermore there's always the risks of accidents and leaks.

Frankly, I'd rather more money be pumped into energy research.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 01:58 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
I'm a bit wary of the use of nuclear power. It's a potential terrorist target,


That's a problem, but there is no reason why it can't be solved through greater security.



Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
the waste is a headache to dispose of,


It wouldn't be that big of a headache if we were willing to reprocess the actinides into fuel for fast-neutron reactors.



Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
where are you going to get the radioactive materials in the first place


Uranium mines are a well-established industry.



Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
and furthermore there's always the risks of accidents and leaks.


The risks are negligible in a properly-designed reactor.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 02:35 pm
oralloy seems to have all the answers. Now, if only he can get our government to follow it.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Dec, 2005 02:51 am
There are at least two problems with your thesis, Oralloy.

First of all, due to the specter of Chernobyl, there is NO politician who will back new Nuclear Plants in the USA.

Secondly, Nuclear Plants, as you may be aware, are used mainly for the production of Electric Power. Our co2 problems come mainly from industrial production outside of electric power generation.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2005 06:55 pm
Mortkat wrote:
There are at least two problems with your thesis, Oralloy.

First of all, due to the specter of Chernobyl, there is NO politician who will back new Nuclear Plants in the USA.


Take a look at the latest energy bill.

http://www.nei.org/index.asp?catnum=3&catid=1351



Mortkat wrote:
Secondly, Nuclear Plants, as you may be aware, are used mainly for the production of Electric Power. Our co2 problems come mainly from industrial production outside of electric power generation.


Use nuclear energy to separate hydrogen from seawater.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 09:53 am
Lately, I've been hearing various sources cite new information that suggests that petroleum may not be a byproduct of dead dinosaurs, fossils, and other compressed organic materials, but may be a natural product of the earth itself and thus not so measurably finite as once assumed. Now mind you these are just people I know nothing about who are saying this, so I am not putting this forward as anything other than idle rumors at the moment. But given how many things scientists have had to back down on with revelation of better information, how interesting would it be if this 'new information' is correct and petroleum is a renewable resource? And how would this affect global policy?

Maybe we would work even harder to make it more environmentally friendly along with looking for different energy sources?

On hydrogen, do any of you tech nuts know how the stability and safety of use compares with gasoline? For those of us unschooled in the use of hydrogen, the vision of the Hindenburg erupting in fire is still vivid.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 04:17 pm
abiotic oil is a myth
and even if it wasnt, how are you going to extract it?
hydrogen is not a source of energy, but a means of transporting it
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 04:17 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Lately, I've been hearing various sources cite new information that suggests that petroleum may not be a byproduct of dead dinosaurs, fossils, and other compressed organic materials, but may be a natural product of the earth itself and thus not so measurably finite as once assumed. Now mind you these are just people I know nothing about who are saying this, so I am not putting this forward as anything other than idle rumors at the moment. But given how many things scientists have had to back down on with revelation of better information, how interesting would it be if this 'new information' is correct and petroleum is a renewable resource? And how would this affect global policy?


I believe the hypothesis is that methane was present in large quantities when the solar system formed, so we have a near unlimited supply of natural gas. But I don't think it applies to heavier hydrocarbons.

The biggest impact potentially will be on the climate. If we run out of hydrocarbons to burn, and burning hydrocarbons causes global warming (as seems likely to be the case), then "running out of fuel" could save our environment.

On the other hand, "an unlimited supply of natural gas" isn't nearly as bad for global warming as it would be if we had "an unlimited supply of coal".



Foxfyre wrote:
On hydrogen, do any of you tech nuts know how the stability and safety of use compares with gasoline? For those of us unschooled in the use of hydrogen, the vision of the Hindenburg erupting in fire is still vivid.


The Hindenburg didn't burn because it used hydrogen. It had serious safety problems.

Of course, any time you have a vehicle engulfed in fire, any fuel on that vehicle is likely to contribute to the fire.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 04:25 pm
oralloy wrote:
The Hindenburg didn't burn because it used hydrogen. It had serious safety problems.

Of course, any time you have a vehicle engulfed in fire, any fuel on that vehicle is likely to contribute to the fire.


Quote:
... [h]Hydrogen could not have caused the explosion. Film footage and witnesses of the crash describe bright yellow flames burning downwards, but hydrogen would only burn in an upward direction with a colourless flame. Several helium-filled airships also crashed and appeared to burn in a similar way.
source: physicsweb
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