71
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2008 04:49 pm
Thanks, Foxy.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:12 am
Lash wrote:
So, even if we don't buy Gore and the doom sayers--
the ice is melting, which
leaves more ocean to absorb rather than reflect sunlight (heat), which
makes the seas hotter, which
begins a cycle of hotter water, less ice...

I know this is simplistic, but an issue, don't you think?

This IS simplistic and this is not an issue.
BTW, the ice is NOT melting. It hasn't changed ever since satellite data existed : http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:20 am
username wrote:
There are 400 years of fairly well-documented human observation of the Canadian Arctic, and the Northwest Passage has been ice-choked throughout that peiod.
No one lived in the Canadian Arctic 400 years ago accept the Inuits who don't have a written language.
How can something be "well-documented" if it has never been visited ? It's doesn't make sense !
As to the past 200 years, the Norwest Passage has been opened many, many times well before this AGW hoax.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:23 am
I guess we can all find links to what we want to find...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:23 am
miniTAX wrote:
username wrote:
There are 400 years of fairly well-documented human observation of the Canadian Arctic, and the Northwest Passage has been ice-choked throughout that peiod.
No one lived in the Canadian Arctic 400 years ago accept the Inuits who don't have a written language.
How can something be "well-documented" if it has never been visited ? It's doesn't make sense !
As to the past 200 years, the Norwest Passage has been opened many, many times well before this AGW hoax.


Don't you guys get it? The Northwest Passage has been open many times because it isn't well documented. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:25 am
another
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:27 am
Here's a guy that says "It happened," but doesn't want to blame global warming...
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:29 am
another
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 08:32 am
The UN...(has to laugh)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 09:08 am
Lash wrote:
I guess we can all find links to what we want to find...
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 03:14 pm
Global warming isn't the sexy topic we all thought...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 03:54 pm
Lash wrote:
Global warming isn't the sexy topic we all thought...


It isn't? I guess I should tell Hubby that it doesn't really get me in the mood when he gives me global warming articles to read. Smile

Seriously though, I do find most earth sciences to be fascinating even though it is frustrating when I think AGW is used to manipulate people, erode their freedoms and opportunities, and force policies that I think are not only useless but could be destructive.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 07:30 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

As of December 20, 2007, over 400 prominent scientists--not a minority of those scientists who have published their views on global warming--from more than two dozen countries voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

THE DISSENTS OF THE SCIENTIFIC DISSENTERS
Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report

24.
Renowned agricultural scientist Dr. Norman Borlaug, known as the father of the "Green Revolution" for saving over a billion people from starvation by utilizing pioneering high yield farming techniques, is one of only five people in history who has been awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom ,and the Congressional Gold Medal. Borlaug also declared himself skeptical of man-made climate fears in 2007. "I do believe we are in a period where, no question, the temperatures are going up. But is this a part of another one of those (natural) cycles that have brought on glaciers and caused melting of glaciers?" Borlaug asked, according to a September 21, 2007 article in Saint Paul Pioneer Press. The article reported that Borlaug is "not sure, and he doesn't think the science is, either." Borlaug added, "How much would we have to cut back to take the increasing carbon dioxide and methane production to a level so that it's not a driving force?" We don't even know how much."


The CO2 parts per million (ppm) in the atmosphere has increased since the beginning of the industrial revolution, but the average global temperature has been fluctuating since then until 1975. From 1975 to 2005, CO2 ppm in the atmosphere increased more than 14%, while the average global temperature increased less than 0.23%. Also from 1975 to 2005 the sun's irradiance increased more than 0.07%. Since 2005, the sun's irradiance has decreased, and so has the average global temperature, even though the CO2 ppm in the atmosphere has continued to increase.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2008 10:31 am
Quote:
Global Warming May Take Ten Year Break

Posted Apr 30, 2008 by Bob Ewing in Environment

To date climate change projections, as published in the last IPCC report, only considered changes in future atmospheric composition. This strategy is appropriate for long-term changes in climate such as predictions for the end of the century.


Climate change projections, as published in the last Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report, only consider changes in future atmospheric composition. This strategy is appropriate for long-term changes in climate such as predictions for the end of the century. However, in order to predict short-term developments over the next decade, models need additional information on natural climate variations, in particular associated with ocean currents.

The lack of sufficient data has hampered such predictions in the past.

Scientists at The Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences at the University of Kiel (IFM-GEOMAR) and from the MPI for Meteorology have developed a method to derive ocean currents from measurements of sea surface temperature (SST). The latter are available in good quality and global coverage at least for the past 50 years.

The press release says that with this additional information, natural decadal climate variations, which are superimposed on the long-term anthropogenic warming trend, can be predicted. The improved predictions suggest that global warming will weaken slightly during the next decade.

"Just to make things clear: we are not stating that anthropogenic climate change won't be as bad as previously thought", explains Prof. Mojib Latif from IFM-GEOMAR.

"What we are saying is that on top of the warming trend there is a long-periodic oscillation that will probably lead to a to a lower temperature increase than we would expect from the current trend during the next years", adds Latif.

"That is like driving from the coast to a mountainous area and crossing some hills and valleys before you reach the top", explains Dr. Johann Jungclaus from the MPI for Meteorology. "In some years trends of phenomena, the anthropogenic climate change and the natural decadal variation will add leading to a much stronger temperature rise."

Emmy-Noether1 fellow and lead author Dr. Noel Keenlyside from IFM-GEOMAR continues: "In addition to the greenhouse gas concentrations we are using observed SST's of the past decades in our climate model simulations, a method which has already successfully been applied for seasonal predictions and El Niño forecasting. The SST's influence the winds and the heat exchange between ocean and atmosphere, and both factors impact ocean currents. The results are very encouraging and show that at least for some regions around the world, it is possible to predict natural climate oscillations on decadal time scale. Europe and North America are two such regions because they are influenced by the North Atlantic and Tropical Pacific, respectively."

Prof. Latif expands "Such forecasts will not enable us to tell you whether or not we will have a white Christmas in 2012 in northern Germany, but we will be able to provide a tendency as to whether or not some decades will be warmer or cooler than average. Of course, always with the assumption that no other unforeseen effects such as volcanic eruptions occur, which can have a substantial effect on our climate as well".
Source

In other words: the warming trend has not gone away and it looks likely that warmer temperatures will boomerang back.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2008 12:42 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
Global Warming May Take Ten Year Break

Posted Apr 30, 2008 by Bob Ewing in Environment

To date climate change projections, as published in the last IPCC report, only considered changes in future atmospheric composition.

False! Actually to date, climate change projections, as published in the last IPCC report, only considered changes in PAST, PRESENT, AS WELL AS future atmospheric composition.

This strategy is appropriate for long-term changes in climate such as predictions for the end of the century.


fALSE! This strategy is INAPPROPRIATE FOR LONG-TERM AS WELL AS short term predictions, because it fails to give proper attention to other causes than atmospheric composition SUCH AS SOLAR CAUSES.

Climate change projections, as published in the last Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report, only consider changes in future atmospheric composition.

Again, false! Actually to date, climate change projections, as published in the last IPCC report, only considered changes in PAST, PRESENT, AS WELL AS future atmospheric composition.

This strategy is appropriate for long-term changes in climate such as predictions for the end of the century. However, in order to predict short-term developments over the next decade, models need additional information on natural climate variations, in particular associated with ocean currents.

Again false, this strategy is INAPPROPRIATE FOR LONG-TERM OR short term predictions, because it fails to give proper attention to other causes than atmospheric composition such as SOLAR CAUSES.

The lack of sufficient data has hampered such predictions in the past.

Scientists at The Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences at the University of Kiel (IFM-GEOMAR) and from the MPI for Meteorology have developed a method to derive ocean currents from measurements of sea surface temperature (SST). The latter are available in good quality and global coverage at least for the past 50 years.

The press release says that with this additional information, natural decadal climate variations, which are superimposed on the long-term anthropogenic warming trend, can be predicted. The improved predictions suggest that global warming will weaken slightly during the next decade.

"Just to make things clear: we are not stating that anthropogenic climate change won't be as bad as previously thought", explains Prof. Mojib Latif from IFM-GEOMAR.

"What we are saying is that on top of the warming trend there is a long-periodic oscillation that will probably lead to a to a lower temperature increase than we would expect from the current trend during the next years", adds Latif.

"That is like driving from the coast to a mountainous area and crossing some hills and valleys before you reach the top", explains Dr. Johann Jungclaus from the MPI for Meteorology. "In some years trends of phenomena, the anthropogenic climate change and the natural decadal variation will add leading to a much stronger temperature rise."

Emmy-Noether1 fellow and lead author Dr. Noel Keenlyside from IFM-GEOMAR continues: "In addition to the greenhouse gas concentrations we are using observed SST's of the past decades in our climate model simulations, a method which has already successfully been applied for seasonal predictions and El Niño forecasting. The SST's influence the winds and the heat exchange between ocean and atmosphere, and both factors impact ocean currents. The results are very encouraging and show that at least for some regions around the world, it is possible to predict natural climate oscillations on decadal time scale. Europe and North America are two such regions because they are influenced by the North Atlantic and Tropical Pacific, respectively."

Prof. Latif expands "Such forecasts will not enable us to tell you whether or not we will have a white Christmas in 2012 in northern Germany, but we will be able to provide a tendency as to whether or not some decades will be warmer or cooler than average. Of course, always with the assumption that no other unforeseen effects such as volcanic eruptions occur, which can have a substantial effect on our climate as well".
Source

In other words: the warming trend has not gone away and it looks likely that warmer temperatures will boomerang back.

In other words, the current warming trend has gone away and has been replaced by a cooling trend, which eventually will be followed by another warming trend and then another cooling trend as in past decades, centuries, and millenia.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2008 12:49 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

As of December 20, 2007, over 400 prominent scientists--not a minority of those scientists who have published their views on global warming--from more than two dozen countries voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

THE DISSENTS OF THE SCIENTIFIC DISSENTERS
Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report

25.
Astronomer Dr. Jeff Zweerink of the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) studies gamma rays, black holes, and neutron stars and has declared himself a skeptic of man-made climate fears. "Many natural phenomena significantly affect the global climate. Atmospheric conditions are impacted by tectonic activity, erosion, and changes in Earth's biomass, for example," Zweerink wrote on December 18, 2006. "While politicians and activists focus on the effects of fossil fuel burning the breeding and domestication of cows and cultivation of rice, for example, actually does more harm than driving too many SUV's," Zweerink added.


The CO2 parts per million (ppm) in the atmosphere has increased since the beginning of the industrial revolution, but the average global temperature has been fluctuating since then until 1975. From 1975 to 2005, CO2 ppm in the atmosphere increased more than 14%, while the average global temperature increased less than 0.23%. Also from 1975 to 2005 the sun's irradiance increased more than 0.07%. Since 2005, the sun's irradiance has decreased, and so has the average global temperature, even though the CO2 ppm in the atmosphere has continued to increase.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2008 12:59 pm
Online contact "Nature"

_____________________

Thanks for re-formulating my "one-dentence-summary" - though that's not how I wanted to formulate it.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 May, 2008 08:41 am
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 May, 2008 08:42 am
(the headline in previous post was mine; press release was AP's; footnote mine as well, tho I'm sure if AP took any notice of ican at all they'd agreee)
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 May, 2008 09:04 am
This is interesting, but what do the biofuels advocates do now?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7381392.stm

Quote:
The UN's new top adviser on food has urged a freeze on biofuel investment, saying the blind pursuit of the policy is "irresponsible".


(snip)

Quote:
The use of food crops for alternative sources of energy like ethanol is one factor behind the price hike.

Mr de Schutter did not go quite as far as his predecessor in the job, Jean Ziegler, the BBC's Laura Trevelyan reports from New York.

Mr Ziegler had condemned biofuels as a "crime against humanity" and called for an immediate ban on their use.


So now everyone advocating biofuels is guilty of "crimes against humanity".
Thats interesting.

Quote:
But the new special rapporteur on the right to food did insist the American and European goals for biofuel production were unrealistic.

"The ambitious goals for biofuel production set by the United States and the European Union are irresponsible," he said in an interview for France's Le Monde newspaper.

"I am calling for a freeze on all investment in this sector."

The biofuel rush was, he argued, a "scandal that only serves the interests of a tiny lobby".

Calling for a special session of the UN Human Rights Council to discuss the food crisis, Mr de Schutter also said he wanted to find ways to limit the impact of speculative investments in food commodities like wheat, which had further driven up prices.

And the rapporteur, a Belgian professor of international law, said it was "unforgivable" that the international community had failed to anticipate the riots sparked last month by soaring food prices.

"Nothing was done to prevent speculation in raw materials, though it was predictable investors would turn to these markets following the stock market slowdown," the UN official said.

"We are paying for 20 years of mistakes."


So now its "irresponsible" to want to find alternative fuel sources, if those sources involve agriculture?
0 Replies
 
 

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