Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

You came up with 40? I didn't check them--I did peek in on one that shows four scientists as authors but it was edited by James Hanson so I'm not sure that really counts as a separate one from his. But even if all 40 can be supported as real scientists, 40 is a long way from 401.

There are lists and there are lists. On another site I checked a few names on a looooooong list of folks posted by a member who claimed these were among the thousands of scientsts who supported AGW. I could not come up with a single credential, bio, affiliation, or any evidence that any of those people even existed. They were apparently all made up, but he had lifted them from some bogus site.

Ican's list shows full names, credentials, affiliations, and where we can see the published works. I'm guessing he is right when he says those 400 scientists are not a minority of scientists who have published opinions on AGW.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Ican's list shows full names, credentials, affiliations, and where we can see the published works. I'm guessing he is right when he says those 400 scientists are not a minority of scientists who have published opinions on AGW.

Really? And you checked on all 400?

Lets see..
Tell me where I can find the published words of..
Biochemistry researcher Dr. Thomas Lavin

or how about..
Meteorologist Jesse Ferrell of AccuWeather

How about the credentials and published works of
Mathematical researcher Douglas J. Keenan

How about
Meteorologist Jim Clark of Florida's WZVN-TV ABC 7

Global warming author and economist Dr. Thomas Gale Moore
Science credentials?

Meteorologist David Aldrich ?

Dr. Mel Goldstein?

how about any writings by the following? let alone where we can see them.
Climate expert Donald G. Baker of the University of Minnesota; Biologist W. Dennis Clark of Arizona State University; Chemist Alan Moghissi of the Institute for Regulatory Science; Meteorologist William E. Reifsnyder (Deceased); Physics professor Clinton H. Sheehan of Ouachita Baptist University in Arkansas; Zoologist Kenneth E. F. Watt; and Horticulturist Sylvan H. Wittwer of the Michigan State University.

How about this group Fox?
astrophysicist Dr. Sallie Baliunas, Deputy Director of Mount Wilson Observatory; Hurricane expert Dr. William Gray, Associate Professor head of the Tropical Research Project at Colorado State University; Oregon State Climatologist George Taylor of Oregon State University's College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences; Marine Biologist Dr. Gary D. Sharp of the Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study; former radiochemist Alan Siddons, Florida State Climatologist Dr. James O'Brien, Director Emeritus of the Center for Ocean-Atmospheric Prediction Studies at Florida State University; Climate scientist Dr. Richard C. Willson of Columbia University's Center for Climate Systems Research

Anthony Watts, former meteorologist ?
What are Mr Watts credentials as a "scientist?"

Chief Meteorologist Tom Chisholm
his published work can be found where?

Chief Meteorologist Bob Breck
Published work is where?

Meteorologist Rob Roseman
Published where?

Bryan Leyland
Published where?

Many of the "published works" are nothing more than a statement made by the individual and quoted in an article. Some of them are NOT published and only referenced as letters or emails. The 400 is getting smaller based on lack of credentials and lack of publication.

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Parados, I don't care enough to look up all that stuff. All I have said is that you have not shown how Ican is incorrect when he says the 400 scientists in his post are not a minority of those scientists who have published an opinion on this subject.

He is posting what they have had to say one by one by one. I trust you are reading what each has to say?

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You said this Fox

Quote:

Ican's list shows full names, credentials, affiliations, and where we can see the published works.

Are you now admitting that your statement wasn't true and I can't see the published works for everyone on ican's list?

"Mathematical researcher" is a credential that makes the person a "scientist"?

C'mon Fox. You claimed you did research on someone else's list but when I list some names from ican's list you show us you didn't do any research on his list.

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Narwhals more at risk to Arctic warming than polar bears - another "misguided view", you'll say.

(Photos via Chicago Tribune, 26.04.08, page 2)

Not to mention those stupid Canadians: Experts seek more protection for polar bears

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parados wrote:

You said this Fox

Quote:
Ican's list shows full names, credentials, affiliations, and where we can see the published works.

Are you now admitting that your statement wasn't true and I can't see the published works for everyone on ican's list?

"Mathematical researcher" is a credential that makes the person a "scientist"?

C'mon Fox. You claimed you did research on someone else's list but when I list some names from ican's list you show us you didn't do any research on his list.

All I said is that you have not shown Ican's statement to be inaccurate when you said that it was. Your anecdotal references do not show his statement to be inaccurate. I did not say that I had researched anything but simply have been observing what he has been posting. I don't know whether you can see published opinions for everyone on Ican's list or not because he hasn't yet posted information on everybody on his list. Those he has so far posted do show that information.

A question for you: why is it so important to you that he be wrong?

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I'm taking a course--Environmental Geology.

Basically, the world will be uninhabitable shortly--gas prices are not going down and we should all bend over and kiss our asses goodbye. Polar bears first.

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Lash wrote:

I'm taking a course--Environmental Geology.

Basically, the world will be uninhabitable shortly--gas prices are not going down and we should all bend over and kiss our asses goodbye. Polar bears first.

So where do we get our tickets for the next Starship Enterprise voyage so we can find new worlds and new civilizations out there. . . somewhere?

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We should just all die. We'd only **** up another world.

Humans are the devil.

I suggested mass suicide the other day. Nobody seemed interested.

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Well you have to understand, Lash, that our work here is still not finished. Smile

Good to see you though. I've missed you.

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Walter, if the actual polar bear count shows that the populations of these animals are not only NOT DECLINING , but, except for the Churchill group, are actually expanding, what does that do to the value of the link you just posted?
Shall we now look at narwhals and see if that data is accurate also?

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This polar bear misinformation and its attendant extrapolation into projected global warming just doesnt work. In 1940, there were only about 5000 polar bears world wide. Today there are over 25000.
Kalee Kreider, who was Gore's environmental PR person during the production oif his flick had made some really lame statemensts like the one that stated '

"Sea Ice was the lowest (thinnest) ever measured for in 2007"> She didnt mention that weve only have about 30 years of actual measurements.
She never mentioned that the Northwest Passage ( a good indicator of sea ice thickness), was open to shipping traffic in 1945 or that Amundsen passed through in a sailing ship in 1903.

The fact that its been significantly warmer in the geologic past and that polar bears evolved before and during a period when there was NO sea ice, seems to escape us. Ive always questioned the evolutionary significance of webbed feet if the polar bears werent gonna need em.

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I hadn't realized there WERE narwhales in the Arctic so read up a bit. From what little I read, it appears that too much ice or too dense ice poses a threat to them more than too little ice:

Quote:

Another enemy is ice. Narwhals sense when ice leads are going to close and they leave the area. Unfortunately, sometimes they get trapped and perish when the ice closes and cuts off their air supply.

http://www.savethewhales.org/narwhal.html

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Foxfyre wrote:

I hadn't realized there WERE narwhales in the Arctic so read up a bit.

Where else could they live? :wink:

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Well, I don't know Walter, but whether or not the arctic is frozen over, I'm pretty sure the ocean will still be there. I didn't know about the narwhales in the Arctic Ocean until now however.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Well, I don't know Walter, but whether or not the arctic is frozen over, I'm pretty sure the ocean will still be there. I didn't know about the narwhales in the Arctic Ocean until now however.

Narwahles ARE artic whales, they don't go further down south than 70°.
Narwhales do need ice.

Quote:

Distribution
Atlantic portion of the Arctic Ocean. Concentrating in the Canadian High Arctic, Baffin Bay, Davis Straight and northern Hudson Bay. Also found in less numbers in the Greenland Sea extending to Svalbard to Severnaya Zemlya off Russia.

Migration Patterns
During the winter months, narwhal live offshore near very heavy pack ice and move through leads and narrow channels during the spring ice melt.

narwhal.org

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Farmer, I think the point about the Northwest Passage is not so much that it was occasionally possible, with great difficulty, in a particularly warm year, and in a purpose-built small ship designed to withstand ice pressure, to eel your way through (but not very often or easily), but rather that it looks now like the passage is going to be often largely ice-free, at least in summer months, long enough to allow commercial traffic. Freighters and tankers are unwieldy and relatively fragile. Their hulls can't stand much punishment. Remember the Exxon Valdez? A simple running aground ruptured it. Trying that with a tanker in pack ice would be the height of madness. They can't maneuver to squeeze thru small spaces. But enough of the icecap seems to be melting so that they will be able to get thru fairly hazard-free. A commercial boon, perhaps, but not necessarily good for the rest of us. And as the ice melts, the albedo changes, since open sea is less reflective, so the sea warms more and more ice melts. Climate models predict that the Arctic is kind of like the canary in the coal mine--the early warning system, the first to show large change. And the change seems to be coming at the high end of the range.

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That sure is a popular canary though:

Despite all the credible data to the contrary that we've seen the last couple of days:

Quote:

Is the Polar Bear Global Warming''s Canary in a Coalmine?

Quote:

In another sense, many business and political analysts use the term canary in a coal mine to describe a harbinger of the future. A melting glacier in Alaska, for example, may be described as a canary in a coal mine for global warming..http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-canary-in-a-coal-mine.htm

Quote:

The Aspen Canary Project
Shorter warmer winters, reduced snowpack, less water available in summer, increasing forest fires. We've already seen these changes beginning in Aspen, and greater changes are on the way. Global warming is our problem.
http://www.canaryinitiative.com/

Australia: Global Warming's Canary in the Coal Mine
http://www.alternet.org/environment/52441/

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And that chorus of chirping you hear from all the canaries might suggest that, yes, there really is trouble in the mine.

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username wrote:

And that chorus of chirping you hear from all the canaries might suggest that, yes, there really is trouble in the mine.

It could suggest that. Or it could be that canaries chirp regardless of whether there is danger and the chirping signifies nothing more than that canaries chirp. But the broad diversity of chirps attributed to canaries suggests that there could be any number of causes which could be nothing or could require attention. But its pretty hard to attribute them all to the same phenomenon.

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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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