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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 02:00 pm
http://i29.tinypic.com/246j1bs.jpg
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 03:33 pm
even trucks with those contraptions were plentyful in germany during WW II - you could fire them with pretty well any combustible material - xcept gasoline .
hbg
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 03:34 pm
just slightly before my time

http://www.steamcar.net/for-sale/firedoc.jpg
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 07:35 pm
Whatever you burn, no matter how you burn it, it emits CO2 when it is burned.

That being the case, let's domestically drill for more oil, let's domestically produce more oil, let's domestically refine more fuel from that oil, let's domestically burn more of that fuel.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 07:40 pm
I don't see the connection between the first paragraph and the second. Burning domestic oil produces as much CO2 as burning foreign oil.

And, unlike grains and grasses foreign and domestic, it doesn't remove CO2 from the admosphere while you grow it.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 07:46 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, over 400 prominent scientists--not a minority--from more than two dozen countries voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

THE DISSENTS OF THE SCIENTIFIC DISSENTERS
Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report

11.
Ocean researcher Dr. John T. Everett, a former National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) senior manager and UN IPCC lead author and reviewer, who led work on five impact analyses for the IPCC including Fisheries, Polar Regions, Oceans and Coastal Zones. Everett, who is also project manager for the UN Atlas of the Oceans, received an award while at NOAA for "accomplishments in assessing the impacts of climate change on global oceans and fisheries." Everett, who publishes the website http://www.climatechangefacts.info/index.htm also expressed skepticism about climate fears in 2007. "It is time for a reality check," Everett testified to Natural Resources Committee in the U.S. Congress on April 17, 2007. "Warming is not a big deal and is not a bad thing," Everett emphasized. "The oceans and coastal zones have been far warmer and colder than is projected in the present scenarios of climate change," Everett said. "In the oceans, major climate warming and cooling is a fact of life, whether it is over a few years as in an El NiƱo or over decades as in the Pacific Decadal Oscillation or the North Atlantic Oscillation. Currents, temperatures, salinity, and biology changes rapidly to the new state in months or a couple years. These changes far exceed those expected with global warming and occur much faster. The one degree F. rise since about 1860, indeed since the year 1000, has brought the global average temperature from 56.5 to 57.5 degrees. This is at the level of noise in this rapidly changing system," Everett explained. "I would much rather have the present warm climate, and even further warming, than the next ice age that will bring temperatures much colder than even today. The NOAA PaleoClimate Program shows us that when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, the earth was much warmer, the CO2 levels were 2 to 4 times higher, and coral reefs were much more expansive. The earth was so productive then that we are still using the oil, coal, and gas it generated," he added. "More of the warming, if it comes, will be during winters and at night and toward the poles. For most life in the oceans, warming means faster growth, reduced energy requirements to stay warm, lower winter mortalities, and wider ranges of distribution," he explained. "No one knows whether the Earth is going to keep warming, or since reaching a peak in 1998, we are at the start of a cooling cycle that will last several decades or more," Everett concluded. Everett also worked for the National Marine Fisheries Service as Division Chief for Fisheries Development in the 1970s and he noted that the concern then was about how predicted global cooling would impact the oceans.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 08:01 pm
Thomas wrote:
I don't see the connection between the first paragraph and the second. Burning domestic oil produces as much CO2 as burning foreign oil.

And, unlike grains and grasses foreign and domestic, it doesn't remove CO2 from the admosphere while you grow it.

The burning of refined oil generates far more energy per any specified mass, than does the burning of grains, grass, trees and tree fruit. Consequently, we can generate more electricity (or miles of travel) from oil per any specifed mass, than we can from grains, grasses, trees, and tree fruit.

If more domestic oil were to be produced, the price of fuel would decrease.

If we only consume grains and grasses and trees and tree fruit for food and not fuel, they will continue to remove CO2 from the atmosphere until consumed, and fewer people will starve.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2008 10:03 pm
Ican beat me to the punch. Plants grown for food remove just as much CO2 from the atmosphere as do plants grown for fuel, and if food is plentiful, fewer people go hungry and the rest of us have to spend less on food leaving us more money with which to buy high efficiency furnaces, modern vehicles that pollute less and get better mileage, etc. etc. Further the economy is less stressed so that there is more venture capital to do R&D towards making things better in the future.

There's always more than one way to look at anything. Smile
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 05:12 am
So why is the US government promoting crops for fuel? Don't they understand what you just said?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 08:26 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
So why is the US government promoting crops for fuel? Don't they understand what you just said?


Because they probably believe they are doing the best thing or they are trying to humor the pro AGW group or who knows? The last paragraphs of the article following may give us a clue that we may most likely be promoting dubious policy:

Our Climate Numbers Are a Big Old Mess
By PATRICK MICHAELS
April 18, 2008; Page A17

President George W. Bush has just announced his goal to stabilize greenhouse-gas emissions by 2025. To get there, he proposes new fuel-economy standards for autos, and lower emissions from power plants built in the next 10 to 15 years.

Pending legislation in the Senate from Joe Lieberman and John Warner would cut emissions even further - by 66% by 2050. No one has a clue how to do this. Because there is no substitute technology to achieve these massive reductions, we'll just have to get by with less energy.


Getty Images
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AH374_Michae_20080417210124.jpg
Disko Bay, Greenland: Temperatures on the island are no warmer than they were in the mid-20th century.

Compared to a year ago, gasoline consumption has dropped only 0.5% at current prices. So imagine how expensive it would be to reduce overall emissions by 66%.

The earth's paltry warming trend, 0.31 degrees Fahrenheit per decade since the mid-1970s, isn't enough to scare people into poverty. And even that 0.31 degree figure is suspect.

For years, records from surface thermometers showed a global warming trend beginning in the late 1970s. But temperatures sensed by satellites and weather balloons displayed no concurrent warming.

These records have been revised a number of times, and I examined the two major revisions of these three records. They are the surface record from the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the satellite-sensed temperatures originally published by University of Alabama's John Christy, and the weather-balloon records originally published by James Angell of the U.S. Commerce Department.

The two revisions of the IPCC surface record each successively lowered temperatures in the 1950s and the 1960s. The result? Obviously more warming - from largely the same data.

The balloon temperatures got a similar treatment. While these originally showed no warming since the late 1970s, inclusion of all the data beginning in 1958 resulted in a slight warming trend. In 2003, some tropical balloon data, largely from poor countries, were removed because their records seemed to vary too much from year to year. This change also resulted in an increased warming trend. Another check for quality control in 2005 created further warming, doubling the initial overall rate.

Then it was discovered that our orbiting satellites have a few faults. The sensors don't last very long and are continually being supplanted by replacement orbiters. The instruments are calibrated against each other, so if one is off, so is the whole record. Frank Wentz, a consulting atmospheric scientist from California, discovered that the satellites also drift a bit in their orbits, which induces additional bias in their readings. The net result? A warming trend appears where before there was none.

There have been six major revisions in the warming figures in recent years, all in the same direction. So it's like flipping a coin six times and getting tails each time. The chance of that occurring is 0.016, or less than one in 50. That doesn't mean that these revisions are all hooey, but the probability that they would all go in one direction on the merits is pretty darned small.

The removal of weather-balloon data because poor nations don't do a good job of minding their weather instruments deserves more investigation, which is precisely what University of Guelph economist Ross McKitrick and I did. Last year we published our results in the Journal of Geophysical Research, showing that "non-climatic" effects in land-surface temperatures - GDP per capita, among other things - exert a significant influence on the data. For example, weather stations are supposed to be a standard white color. If they darken from lack of maintenance, temperatures read higher than they actually are. After adjusting for such effects, as much as half of the warming in the U.N.'s land-based record vanishes. Because about 70% of earth's surface is water, this could mean a reduction of as much as 15% in the global warming trend.

Another interesting thing happens to the U.N.'s data when it's adjusted for the non-climatic factors. The frequency of very warm months is lowered, to the point at which it matches the satellite data, which show fewer very hot months. That's a pretty good sign that there are fundamental problems with the surface temperature history. At any rate, our findings have not been incorporated into the IPCC's history, and they probably never will be.

The fear of a sudden loss of ice from Greenland also makes a lot of news. A year ago, radio and television were ablaze with the discovery of "Warming Island," a piece of land thought to be part of Greenland. But when the ice receded in the last few years, it turned out that there was open water. Hence Warming Island, which some said hadn't been uncovered for thousands of years. CNN, ABC and the BBC made field trips to the island.

But every climatologist must know that Greenland's last decade was no warmer than several decades in the early and mid-20th century. In fact, the period from 1970-1995 was the coldest one since the late 19th century, meaning that Greenland's ice anomalously expanded right about the time climate change scientists decided to look at it.

Warming Island has a very distinctive shape, and it lies off of Carlsbad Fjord, in eastern Greenland. My colleague Chip Knappenberger found an inconvenient book, "Arctic Riviera," published in 1957 (near the end of the previous warm period) by aerial photographer Ernst Hofer. Hofer did reconnaissance for expeditions and was surprised by how pleasant the summers had become. There's a map in his book: It shows Warming Island.

The mechanism for the Greenland disaster is that summer warming creates rivers, called moulins, that descend into the ice cap, lubricating a rapid collapse and raising sea levels by 20 feet in the next 90 years. In Al Gore's book, "An Inconvenient Truth," there's a wonderful picture of a moulin on page 193, with the text stating "These photographs from Greenland illustrate some of the dramatic changes now happening on the ice there."

Really? There's a photograph in the journal "Arctic," published in 1953 by R.H. Katz, captioned "River disappearing in 40-foot deep gorge," on Greenland's Adolf Hoels Glacier. It's all there in the open literature, but apparently that's too inconvenient to bring up. Greenland didn't shed its ice then. There was no acceleration of the rise in sea level.

Finally, no one seems to want to discuss that for millennia after the end of the last ice age, the Eurasian arctic was several degrees warmer in summer (when ice melts) than it is now. We know this because trees are buried in areas that are now too cold to support them. Back then, the forest extended all the way to the Arctic Ocean, which is now completely surrounded by tundra. If it was warmer for such a long period, why didn't Greenland shed its ice?

This prompts the ultimate question: Why is the news on global warming always bad? Perhaps because there's little incentive to look at things the other way. If you do, you're liable to be pilloried by your colleagues. If global warming isn't such a threat, who needs all that funding? Who needs the army of policy wonks crawling around the world with bold plans to stop climate change?

But as we face the threat of massive energy taxes - raised by perceptions of increasing rates of warming and the sudden loss of Greenland's ice - we should be talking about reality.


Mr. Michaels is senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute and professor of environmental sciences at University of Virginia.
WSJ LINK
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 01:53 pm
Excellent article, Foxfyre. Although I have come around to sort of accepting the idea that temperatures have risen slightly, I have always remained skeptical of the reported amount, for many of the reasons discussed in the article. One would think that measurements would be a piece of cake, but it is not when we are only talking about a small fraction of a degree. There are many more factors in play here that are really questionable. And when the data becomes manipulated as a political football, anything can happen.

Then, aside from whether temperatures have risen or fallen, then the argument over cause is many faceted.

I do believe the degree of warming is less than reported, and fully within the realm of what can be accounted for by natural cycles of the sun and other factors. One thing I know, I can't plant tomatoes any sooner than we could 50 years ago, and still escape frost.
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2008 04:21 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
So why is the US government promoting crops for fuel? Don't they understand what you just said?

Because they have cornered themselves by following stupid advices deduced from junk science based on unvalidated models which dictates central plannification schemes a la Kyoto along which soviet planning would seem amateur improvisation. They hold the Kyoto tiger by the tail and they don't know how to let it go.
"There is no question for now of suspending the target fixed for biofuels," said last Monday Barbara Helfferich, spokeswoman for EU Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimas.

Those bureaucrats haven't seen an announced disaster coming 6 months in advance. And they are supposed to plan the world energy future for the next 50 years ? Come on !
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anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 12:50 am
Going by the information that has been supplied in all these posts and the mass of scientists now debunking Global Warming, it seems to me that the scientist in question should come together and force the publication of their findings in the press and advise the government that the population as a whole will.. If it's scientifically correct, hold them to account for the huge costs and the continuation of a farce for no sensible reason
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 04:53 am
As an issue, global warming doesn't even show up as something on peoples minds when asked what are the most important issues. Without the media bombarding the citizenry daily and trying to work people into a frenzy over this, I doubt you could find anyone at all to even notice, and even with all the hoopla, it still doesn't show up. The economy and Iraq are the two most important issues. Even health care, the centerpiece of the Democrats platform, doesn't make a big splash.

http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 05:04 am
okie wrote:
As an issue, global warming doesn't even show up as something on peoples minds when asked what are the most important issues.


This is a bout local (sic!) elections in the UK:
Quote:
Climate change will be a significant factor in next month's municipal elections, the Local Government Association said on Friday.

A poll found that 62 percent of 1,003 people interviewed nationwide said they were more likely to vote for a candidate with policies to tackle the climate crisis.

By contrast 21 percent said it would make no difference to their voting intentions and only 15 percent said it would put them off a candidate.

It also showed that two-thirds of women would be attracted to candidates with climate policies while the same was true of only 57 percent of men.
Source: reuters
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 08:04 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
A poll found that 62 percent of 1,003 people interviewed nationwide said they were more likely to vote for a candidate with policies to tackle the climate crisis.
Source: reuters


Let me guess Walter, the poll's question must have been:
"Global warming is going to fry us all. Do you think the next responsible governement should deny this evitable disaster and do nothing to tackle the impending climate crisis, YES, NO ?"
:wink:
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 09:21 am
miniTAX wrote:

Let me guess Walter, the poll's question must have been:
"Global warming is going to fry us all. Do you think the next responsible governement should deny this evitable disaster and do nothing to tackle the impending climate crisis, YES, NO ?"
:wink:


No, but since you're truely not an internet-illiterate, you knew that already Laughing
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 09:32 am
anton bonnier wrote:
Going by the information that has been supplied in all these posts and the mass of scientists now debunking Global Warming, it seems to me that the scientist in question should come together and force the publication of their findings in the press and advise the government that the population as a whole will.. If it's scientifically correct, hold them to account for the huge costs and the continuation of a farce for no sensible reason


Laughing

Yes they should. And what odds are you going to give me that this will actually happen?
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 12:45 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, over 400 prominent scientists--not a minority--from more than two dozen countries voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

THE DISSENTS OF THE SCIENTIFIC DISSENTERS
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Apr, 2008 06:40 pm
Keep posting it, ican, and maybe someday the global warmers will actually read it and acknowledge it as fact.
0 Replies
 
 

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