71
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 08:29 pm
This is fun.

Quote:
Stewart Dimmock's high-profile fight to ban the film being shown in schools was depicted as a David and Goliath battle, with the Kent school governor taking on the state by arguing that the government was 'brainwashing' pupils...

The Observer has established that Dimmock's case was supported by a powerful network of business interests with close links to the fuel and mining lobbies. He was also supported by a Conservative councillor in Hampshire, Derek Tipp.

Dimmock credited the little-known New Party with supporting him in the test case but did not elaborate on its involvement...

The company's owner and chairman of the New Party, Robert Durward, is a long-time critic of environmentalists. With Mark Adams, a former private secretary to Tony Blair, he set up the Scientific Alliance, a not-for-profit body comprising scientists and non-scientists, which aims to challenge many of the claims about global warming.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2190770,00.html

Quote:
Scientific Alliance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Interested in contributing to Wikipedia? •Jump to: navigation, search
The Scientific Alliance is a British industry-friendly organization that promotes biotechnology, genetically modified food, and climate change skepticism.

The group was created in 2001 by quarryman Robert Durward, director of the British Aggregates Association, and political consultant Mark Adams of the public relations firm, Foresight Communications.

The Scotsman newspaper has reported that on contacting the Alliance to ask about Durward's role, 'after some uncertainty, the switchboard it shares with a number of other firms denied any knowledge of Mr Durward's existence. Matthew Drinkwater, the one person responding to calls to its offices, could also be contacted by ringing the offices of Foresight Communications.'

Foresight Communications is a PR firm established by Mark Adams in January 2001. As well as The Scientific Alliance, its client list includes the British Aggregates Association and the New Party for Britain (also known as the People's Alliance). The New Party - also the name of Oswald Mosley's first party - is so right-wing that the Tory leader in Scotland, where it operates, has called it 'fascist and undemocratic'. Like the Scientific Alliance, this 'People's Alliance', was established by Durward and Adams.




Although the group's privacy policy prevents it from revealing its funders, critics like Bob May of the Royal Society have alleged that the group is linked to the U.S. oil company, ExxonMobil.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 02:07 pm
Did anybody underwrite the plaintiff's legal bills at Dover?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 11:59 pm
Since oil prices burst through $86 a barrel ...

http://i20.tinypic.com/v7b9rt.jpg

... looking for alternative energies might be a not too bad idea.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:01 pm
scientists report that CO 2 levels are rising faster than previously expected .
both the inefficient and increased use of fossil fuels and the inability of the earth's natural carbon sinks to absorb more and more CO 2 are cited as the main reasons .
slowly but steadily we seem to be overloading the natural system of the earth to deal with increasing amounts of CO 2 .
hbg


Quote:

FROM THE BBC
------------------

'Unexpected growth' in CO2 found

Carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere have risen 35% faster than expected since 2000, says a study.
International scientists found that inefficiency in the use of fossil fuels increased levels of CO2 by 17%.

The other 18% came from a decline in the natural ability of land and oceans to soak up CO2 from the atmosphere.


About half of emissions from human activity are absorbed by natural "sinks" but the efficiency of these sinks has fallen, the study suggests.

The research, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), was carried out by the Global Carbon Project, the University of East Anglia, UK, and the British Antarctic Survey.

It found that improvements in the carbon intensity of the global economy have stalled since 2000, leading to an unexpected jump in atmospheric CO2.

"In addition to the growth of global population and wealth, we now know that significant contributions to the growth of atmospheric CO2 arise from the slow-down of natural sinks and the halt to improvements in the carbon intensity of wealth production," said the study's lead author, Dr Pep Canadell, executive director of the Global Carbon Project.

Global sink

The weakening of the Earth's ability to cope with greenhouse gases is thought to be a result of changing wind patterns over seas and droughts on land.

"The decline in global sink efficiency suggests that stabilisation of atmospheric CO2 is even more difficult to achieve than previously thought," said report co-author Dr Corinne Le Quere of the British Antarctic Survey.

"We found that nearly half of the decline in the efficiency of the ocean CO2 sink is due to the intensification of the winds in the Southern Ocean."

The declining power of the seas to soak up industrial pollution is not only being recorded in the southern hemisphere, however.

According to a separate 10-year study published recently, the effect is also being seen in the North Atlantic.





source :
CO2 LEVELS RISING
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:24 pm
Something I have wondered, have forest fires been factored into the computer models? This site discusses this subject and mentions that fires are a part of nature, plus the Indians set fires on purpose from time to time to enhance conditions.

http://www.slate.com/id/2175938/

Question in regard to this activity by the Indians who we are told by some that they were in perfect harmony with nature, was this activity a part of nature and totally consistent with environmental balance?

This quote from the above link:


First of all, 13% to 40% is a huge range here, which tells me they must not know exactly. Secondly, if it is 40%, we are talking about one country's forest fires being responsible for up to 40% of the entire world's emissions for an entire year? Whoa! Something tells me this issue needs a little more examination. Maybe instead of Kyoto, we just need to outlaw forest fires, ha ha?
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:42 pm
okie wrote :

Quote:
... the Indians set fires on purpose from time to time to enhance conditions.
Question in regard to this activity by the Indians who we are told by some that they were in perfect harmony with nature, was this activity a part of nature and totally consistent with environmental balance?


if memory serves me right there were not quite as many people living on this earth in the days of the "indians" as today .
the "indians" preferred mode of transportation was TO WALK , i believe - until THE WHITE MAN brought in horses .
also , not many automobiles were driven in those days , i seem to recall .
hbg :wink:
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:49 pm
I know all of that. I am simply injecting a little humor and perhaps a somewhat sarcastic quesion, but a question that may have meaning to the philosophical debate here, as it affects how we view things. Is an Indian setting fires to forests environmentally balanced and okay, but when I cut the forest down and transport it to burn in my fireplace, is that then to be considered as pollution? You don't have to answer it, but my main point aside from the Indians was that forest fires need to be factored into the equation, and just how much have they been factored in?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 05:55 am
Quote:
Heavy Editing Is Alleged In Climate Testimony

By H. Josef Hebert
Associated Press
Wednesday, October 24, 2007; Page A10

Testimony that the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention planned to give yesterday to a Senate committee about the impact of climate change on health was significantly edited by the White House, according to two sources familiar with the documents.

Specific scientific references to potential health risks were removed after Julie L. Gerberding submitted a draft of her prepared remarks to the White House Office of Management and Budget for review...

A CDC official familiar with both versions said Gerberding's draft "was eviscerated," cut from 14 pages to four. The version presented to the Senate committee consisted of six pages...

The Bush administration has been accused by government scientists of pressuring them to emphasize the uncertainties of global warming. Earlier this year, climate scientists complained to a House committee that the administration had sought frequently to manage or influence their statements and public appearances...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/23/AR2007102302056.html?hpid=moreheadlines
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 06:06 am
I mentioned that on an own thread already - but I think [now], it's just a logic continuation of the White House's policy.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 07:25 am
walter

Yes, it is entirely consistent with everything this administration (and the modern conservative movement) have been working to achieve. Neither science nor the will of the majority nor the constitution can be allowed to be conceived (by citizens) as a source of authority senior to religious authority or senior to existing economic power structures.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:42 am
But did the editing remove anything that was meaningful??? No specifics are offered on that critical point.

Anyone who has exercised a management role of any kind in an hierarchical organization has had the experience of compressing and editing the off point polemics and wanderings of his/her deputies in written reports.

In addition the executive branch of the government is led by the President. It is not a debating forum for low-level bureaucrats.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:49 am
georgeob1 wrote:
But did the editing remove anything that was meaningful??? No specifics are offered on that critical point.

Anyone who has exercised a management role of any kind in an hierarchical organization has had the experience of compressing and editing the off point polemics and wanderings of his/her deputies in written reports.

In addition the executive branch of the government is led by the President. It is not a debating forum for low-level bureaucrats.


In that case, there should not be even an implication that what is being presented is anything other then partisan political opinion - basically rendering the process entirely useless.

If there is no expectation of objectivity whatsoever from scientists who are employed by the gov't, then I don't really care what they have to say - ever.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:54 am
Yes, points that were very meaningful were removed. Future impact was so tamped down as to be not only different in degree but in kind as well, according to the reports. These kinds of reports are supposed to be based on facts and what the science reveals about them. The Bush administration has shown a consistent pattern of suppressing theevidence when it shows something unfavorable to the political interests it espouses. They maintain that they should have executive privilege so that their advisers can tell them the unvarnished truth, which they might sugarcoat if they knew their words would be public record. Perhaps there should be public privilege, so that we can have advisers tell us what they regard as the truth without having the administration try to sugarcoat it because they fear others (i.e. us) will hear it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:55 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:

In that case, there should not be even an implication that what is being presented is anything other then partisan political opinion - basically rendering the process entirely useless.

If there is no expectation of objectivity whatsoever from scientists who are employed by the gov't, then I don't really care what they have to say - ever.

Cycloptichorn


Scientists bicker with one another all the time. Our government is not merely an amplifier for the opinions of the bureaucrat/scientists it employs - any more than it is an amplifier for the policy paper shufflers who inhabit its other compartments in the executive Branch.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:57 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:

In that case, there should not be even an implication that what is being presented is anything other then partisan political opinion - basically rendering the process entirely useless.

If there is no expectation of objectivity whatsoever from scientists who are employed by the gov't, then I don't really care what they have to say - ever.

Cycloptichorn


Scientists bicker with one another all the time. Our government is not merely an amplifier for the opinions of the bureaucrat/scientists it employs - any more than it is an amplifier for the policy paper shufflers who inhabit its other compartments in the executive Branch.


So you agree that every presentation by a politically-controlled gov't scientist should begin with the words 'here is the official position of the administration we represent, and not our personal scientific judgment?'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 01:40 pm
remember dr. marburger , the president's chief scientific adviser ?
imo he was quite outspoken in his comments :

-The Earth may become "unliveable" without cuts in CO2 output,

-The CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere and there's no end point, it just gets hotter and hotter

-And it's going to lead to trouble unless we can begin to reduce the amount of fossil fuels we are burning and using in our economies

to the best of my knowledge he is still the president's adviser .
apparently the president has accepted dr. marburger's findings (see reference in WASHINGTON POST link ) .
hbg

Quote:
Bush aide says warming man-made
By Roger Harrabin
Environment analyst, BBC News



The US chief scientist has told the BBC that climate change is now a fact.
Professor John Marburger, who advises President Bush, said it was more than 90% certain that greenhouse gas emissions from mankind are to blame.

The Earth may become "unliveable" without cuts in CO2 output , he said, but he labelled targets for curbing temperature rise as "arbitrary".

His comments come shortly before major meetings on climate change at the UN and the Washington White House.

There may still be some members of the White House team who are not completely convinced about climate change - but it is clear that the science advisor to the President and director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy is not one of them.

In the starkest warning from the White House so far about the dangers ahead, Professor Marburger told the BBC that climate change was unequivocal, with mankind more than 90% likely to blame.


The CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere and there's no end point, it just gets hotter and hotter

Quote:
Marburger interview

Despite disagreement on the details of climate science, he said: "I think there is widespread agreement on certain basics, and one of the most important is that we are producing far more CO2 from fossil fuels than we ought to be.

"And it's going to lead to trouble unless we can begin to reduce the amount of fossil fuels we are burning and using in our economies."


Trouble ahead

This is an explicit endorsement of the latest major review of climate science from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Professor Marburger said humanity would be in trouble if we did not stop increasing carbon emissions.


"The CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere and there's no end point, it just gets hotter and hotter, and so at some point it becomes unliveable," he said.
Professor Marburger said he wished he could stop US emissions right away, but that was obviously not possible.

US backing for the scientific consensus was confirmed by President Bush's top climate advisor, James Connaughton.

The chair of the White House Council on Environmental Quality told BBC News that advancing technology was the best way to curb the warming trend.

"You only have two choices; you either have advanced technologies and get them into the marketplace, or you shut down your economies and put people out of work," he said.

"I don't know of any politician that favours shutting down economies."

'Arbitrary' targets

Mr Bush has invited leaders of major developed and developing nations to the White House later this month for discussions on a future global direction on climate change.

It will follow a UN General Assembly session on the same issue.

Last week the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation forum in Sydney backed the UN climate convention as the right body for developing future global policy.

The European Union wants such a policy to adopt its own target of stabilising temperature rise at or below 2C.

But Mr Marburger said the state of the science made it difficult to justify any particular target.

"It's not clear that we'll be in a position to predict the future accurately enough to make policy confidently for a long time," he said.

"I think 2C is rather arbitrary, and it's not clear to me that the answer shouldn't be 3C or more or less. It's a hunch, a guess."

The truth, he said, was that we just do not know what the 'safe' limit is.




DR. MARBURGER - ORIGINAL POST

DR. MARBURGER - BIO


Quote:
Marburger said: "Climate change can have broad implications for our environment, and that is why the president has put forward an aggressive strategy to develop the best science and technology to address the issue."

see full report :
WASHINGTON POST
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 04:53 pm
george

If your thesis is that this example above (and the many others which have preceded it) are merely instances of editing for brevity or concision, then you simply have not been paying attention.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 05:43 pm
username wrote-

Quote:
The Bush administration has shown a consistent pattern of suppressing theevidence when it shows something unfavorable to the political interests it espouses


Which are, of course, that as many Americans as possible have a good time and don't feel all that guilty about it.

You would look pretty dumb electing Mr Bush for any other reason unless you were into the milder forms of asceticism.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:53 pm
blatham wrote:
george

If your thesis is that this example above (and the many others which have preceded it) are merely instances of editing for brevity or concision, then you simply have not been paying attention.


Was the "Example" above edited by the Administration? -- I don't think it was. Interesting that Marburger, while not contesting the accumulation theory, held back from endorsing the 200ppm limit, saying there was as yet no scientific basis for preferring that to (say) 300ppm, and stating that in view of that the define goals so far offered are "arbitrary".

I really don't know the particulars of the cases you may have in mind. However my opinion is that in the political game of gotcha that substitutes for reasoned debate there has been a great dea of crying wolf when there was no real issue. The AGW zealots grasp on any favorable detail to claim victory in every particular of their cant - including much that is truly fantastic.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 10:36 pm
george

You have a strong science background and you ought to be more familiar with what's going on here. Global warming is only one of many issues effected. Papers and reports written by teams of research scientists working in government agencies are regularly censored, altered, redacted, or returned for rewrites because the political appointees in charge (usually untrained in the related sciences) find them politically unpalatable. The reports aren't "on message" and/or would be poorly received by particular interest groups upon which this administration depends for electoral and financial support. The issues are diverse and these are just a very few:

- reproductive technologies such as safety of the morning after pill, efficacy of condoms for prevention of pregnancy and transmission of HIV
- efficacy of educational programs like those promoting sexual abstinence as compared to those promoting sexual education
- relationship between abortion and cancer rates
- health risks related to mercury, tobacco, paints and many other compounds produced as byproducts of industry or as products for sale
- benefits of breast feeding
- saftey issues related to pharmaceuticals
- health and safety issues related to the foods we eat
- automobile safety
- science curricula related to the evolution of biological species
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 09/29/2024 at 07:30:40