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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 04:41 am
spendius wrote:
Excuse my cynicism Hb but that sounds like you have been under the sway for far too long of one of those prim New England lady teachers who thrum with enthusiasm at the prospect of inculcating in their young charges utopian ideas of sweeping grandeur culled from a quick read of an article in one of those glossy mags which specialise in flattering the self-important pomposity of their readers who are, by definition, of average intelligence and quite often a few points light of that modest capacity.

The trick is to posture as responsibly concerned with the smallest possible effort or discomfort and thus to find oneself popular with the average run of mankind who are incapable of thinking in any other way.
Particularly like "excuse my cynicism" Laughing
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 05:29 am
meanwhile the flip side of anthropogenic global warming, is that the oils running out

Quote:
In Cork, the former US energy secretary, James Schlesinger, used his keynote speech to tell delegates that they were no longer a tiny minority crying in the wilderness: "You can declare victory . . . and prepare to take yes for an answer."

It was a bold claim, but true. Although most senior oil executives continue to deny publicly what is becoming more obvious by the month, the industry-wide "omerta" is beginning to crack. Thierry Desmarest, chairman of Total, declared last year that production would peak in 2020, and urged governments to suppress demand to delay the witching hour. In Cork, the former Shell chairman, Lord Oxburgh, told me he expects demand to outstrip supply within 20 years, and that the oil price may well hit $150. He warned: "We may be sleepwalking into a problem that is actually going to be very serious, and it may be too late to do anything about it by the time we are fully aware."
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 09:52 am
Quote:
Bernie- I think you quoted the wrong lines from my previous post. They were merely a bit of fluffing to decorate-


spendi

It would be no overstatement if I wrote that your fluff decorates this site to the site's great advantage and also to my personal joy and admiration. You are a word weaver of exceptional originality and brilliance. But as a logician, you stink up the heavens.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 11:46 am
No logician would go in for unsupported assertions of that nature.

If we go back you have drawn a false conclusion that I had contended that all the golden throughts are to be found behind one's own eyeballs. Without any explanation of course.

It was in response to my saying that all the blather of previous stuff about doing something about global warming was filibustering. Yesterday our delightful leaders proudly proclaimed that we are on target for 3% growth this year and 2% next. The latter constituting a recession. That's 5% over two years. I'm at a loss to explain how that 5% growth isn't going to produce a 5% increase on carbon emissions. I gather the US had a recent growth figure of 8%. Also, the emerging economies are going for broke.

The platitudes being offered were filibustering. Talk for talk's sake.

From that you then said. or craftily implied, again without explanation, that I thought, and acted upon, the notion that all the golden throughts are to be found behind my own eyeballs.

I denied that on the grounds that I have no golden thoughts and had never for a moment considered that I had. On my appearance in this vale of tears I had no thoughts whatsoever. I was conditioned. All the thoughts I have, golden or otherwise, are the result of that conditioning and have nothing to do with me. I phrased that into a snappy-

Quote:
I don't recall either contending such an idiotic idea or even having ever thought of it.


which I fluffed up with some actual explanations.

To which you inscrutably responded-

Quote:
These 'truths' apply at home spendi, or just to others?


which I couldn't imagine meant anything and was not a proper response.

When I said you quoted the wrong lines to respond to you engaged in some cheap and cunning frivolity culminating with asserting that as a "logician", which I've never claimed to be, I stink up the heavens, and again without the slightest attempt to justify it.

In most schools of excellence such tactics are considered as an admission of defeat as they are identical with the method young ladies use when, stumped, they pull out their tongue and go "mruuuurrrr", which is a method they can get away with due to their other accomplishments none of which you have. Or I presume not.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 01:04 pm
Quote:
In most schools of excellence such tactics are considered as an admission of defeat

"Defeat" presumes a contest. blatham and spendi are not in one.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 02:29 pm
Bernie-

I think A2K would fade away if we spent our time in nice platitudes and what is known as contactless sociability.

I've grown up with men who have gleefully put themselves 4 points on the marker board when I miscued when pissed, and the tricks the giant marrow growers get up to beggar belief.

Darwin justified competition goodstyle. Watch the Australians play at cricket sometime.

Baseball doesn't look very competitive I must admit but I'll allow that I might not understand the "finer points". From what I've seen those baseball players would be on their knees by lunch on the second day of a Test Match. And your football players spend a lot of time standing around and posing for the cheerleaders. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that. I'd do it myself if I got the chance.

What goes into scoring a century at Lord's is mind boggling. The 20 minute ice-bath is only a minute fraction of the 15 years of pain and suffering. And when you've done it all you get to be a commentator on Sky Sports and then you can start again making snidey remarks about your fellow commentators, all of whom have scored a good few centuries for England, and drawing the viewers attention to their less glorious moments.

It's good fun.

Do you fancy swapping around for a bit and I'll play Mr Nice Guy for a while and you can be the capitalist bastard.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 03:09 pm
Hey-- I just heard that one of our High Court judges has condemned Al Gore's movie, which is going to be distributed in schools, as alarmist and something else which I've forgetten but it was alarming.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 02:32 am
Maybe its wishful thinking on my part, but is the CO2 rise showing an ever so slight slowing? I realize that trying to look at the recent time spans does not allow a credible view of long term trend, but I still like to look at the short term in the graphs every month or so, as subject matter for speculation.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/index.html#global

Temperatures don't seem to be going much of anywhere lately.

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/RSSglobe.html
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 06:44 am
blatham wrote:
You are a word weaver of exceptional originality and brilliance. But as a logician, you stink up the heavens.


I think the two go hand in hand, lack of logic and originality. When you throw words at the page without rhyme or reason they are original simply because they have no rhyme or reason. I, however, don't equate lack of logic with brilliance. A 5 year old can throw words around in an original manner because he doesn't know their meaning.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 09:08 am
parados wrote:
blatham wrote:
You are a word weaver of exceptional originality and brilliance. But as a logician, you stink up the heavens.


I think the two go hand in hand, lack of logic and originality. When you throw words at the page without rhyme or reason they are original simply because they have no rhyme or reason. I, however, don't equate lack of logic with brilliance. A 5 year old can throw words around in an original manner because he doesn't know their meaning.


I will defend my friend spendi unto death unless cash is offered to betray him. Five dollars should do. For ten, you can take him as a personal sex slave for either yourself or Aunt Hetty.
Quote:
and the tricks the giant marrow growers get up to beggar belief.
The thing is, spendi is right about this. Of course, as a graduate (honors) from the Midlands Agricultural College, there'd be no excuse available for harvest if he were wrong.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 11:12 am
spendius wrote:
Hey-- I just heard that one of our High Court judges has condemned Al Gore's movie, which is going to be distributed in schools, as alarmist and something else which I've forgetten but it was alarming.

Heres a link about Gores award winning "documentary" (ha ha) being littered with inconvenient untruths.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301067,00.html
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 11:48 am
And here's the story-

Quote:

Al Gore's 'nine Inconvenient Untruths'
By Sally Peck
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 11/10/2007

The 'nine inconvenient truths'

Al Gore's environmental documentary An Inconvenient Truth contains nine key scientific errors, a High Court judge ruled yesterday.

Watch the trailer for An Inconvenient Truth
The judge declined to ban the Academy Award-winning film from British schools, but ruled that it can only be shown with guidance notes to prevent political indoctrination.

In the documentary, directed by Davis Guggenheim, the former US vice president and environmental activist calls on people to fight global warming because "humanity is sitting on a ticking time bomb".

But Judge Michael Burton ruled yesterday that errors had arisen "in the context of alarmism and exaggeration" in order to support Mr Gore's thesis on global warming.

His criticism followed an unsuccessful attempt by Stewart Dimmock, a Kent school governor, to block the Government's plan to screen the documentary in more than 3,500 secondary schools in England and Wales.

The father of two claimed An Inconvenient Truth included "serious scientific inaccuracies, political propaganda and sentimental mush".

The film's distributor, Paramount, warns in its synopsis of the film: "If the vast majority of the world's scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send our entire planet into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced."

But the judge ruled that the "apocalyptic vision" presented in the film was politically partisan and thus not an impartial scientific analysis of climate change.

It is, he ruled, a "political film".

The nine alleged errors in the film

Mr Gore claims that a sea-level rise of up to 20 feet would be caused by melting of either West Antarctica or Greenland "in the near future". The judge said: "This is distinctly alarmist and part of Mr Gore's "wake-up call". He agreed that if Greenland melted it would release this amount of water - "but only after, and over, millennia"."The Armageddon scenario he predicts, insofar as it suggests that sea level rises of seven metres might occur in the immediate future, is not in line with the scientific consensus."


The film claims that low-lying inhabited Pacific atolls "are being inundated because of anthropogenic global warming" but the judge ruled there was no evidence of any evacuation having yet happened.


The documentary speaks of global warming "shutting down the Ocean Conveyor" - the process by which the Gulf Stream is carried over the North Atlantic to western Europe. Citing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the judge said that it was "very unlikely" that the Ocean Conveyor, also known as the Meridional Overturning Circulation, would shut down in the future, though it might slow down.


Mr Gore claims that two graphs, one plotting a rise in C02 and the other the rise in temperature over a period of 650,000 years, showed "an exact fit". The judge said that, although there was general scientific agreement that there was a connection, "the two graphs do not establish what Mr Gore asserts".


Mr Gore says the disappearance of snow on Mt Kilimanjaro was directly attributable to global warming, but the judge ruled that it scientists have not established that the recession of snow on Mt Kilimanjaro is primarily attributable to human-induced climate change.


The film contends that the drying up of Lake Chad is a prime example of a catastrophic result of global warming but the judge said there was insufficient evidence, and that "it is apparently considered to be far more likely to result from other factors, such as population increase and over-grazing, and regional climate variability."


Mr Gore blames Hurricane Katrina and the consequent devastation in New Orleans on global warming, but the judge ruled there was "insufficient evidence to show that".


Mr Gore cites a scientific study that shows, for the first time, that polar bears were being found after drowning from "swimming long distances - up to 60 miles - to find the ice" The judge said: "The only scientific study that either side before me can find is one which indicates that four polar bears have recently been found drowned because of a storm."That was not to say there might not in future be drowning-related deaths of bears if the trend of regression of pack ice continued - "but it plainly does not support Mr Gore's description".


Mr Gore said that coral reefs all over the world were being bleached because of global warming and other factors. Again citing the IPCC, the judge agreed that, if temperatures were to rise by 1-3 degrees centigrade, there would be increased coral bleaching and mortality, unless the coral could adapt. However, he ruled that separating the impacts of stresses due to climate change from other stresses, such as over-fishing, and pollution was difficult.
A Government spokesman said he would not make any further comment on the case today.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 11:53 am
That was the mildest link I could find.

One link gives the film a serious shitting on.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 11:58 am
I think, it's far better to quote from High Court Judge Sir Michael Burton's ruling than from some unsourced blogs.

But what The Times (as well The Daily Telegraph, to quote from conservative papers) reported, shouldn't be left out when copying/pasting from media:



Quote:
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Halfback
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 12:38 pm
Spendius:

WOW, call the kettle black why don't you. I haven't seen a sentence that long since Faulkner's "Go down Moses ". I don't believe.

I cited my case, offered suggestion for forward progress from here. My case was based on non-consensus in this thread and the fact that I greatly disprove of firing bushel baskets of money at any project until I can get a feeling that it will pay off. This includes unnecessary wars, I might add. Congress has proved for years incapable of similar thinking, hence waste and non-resolution of problems certain programs were supposed to cure.

Your answer reads much more into me than you have a right to imply. I assure you, the last time I was under the influence of prim school teachers was before a great number of our society decided that the taxpayers owed them a living.

That I select my words with care for context and meaning, proper syntax and puncuation comes as a result of my education. (Nor do I claim to get it right all the time, either! Embarrassed ) I do not expect everyone to understand it, particularly if they are unable to understand words longer than two syllables, or are to lazy to do a little considered thinking, or perhaps, even, to look at a viewpoint in opposition to their own.

When I post in here, it is for the 90% of posters in here who no NOT fall into my qualifiers above. I offered a position, you offered ..... nothing. Typical.

Halfback
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 12:50 pm
Quote:
The other three main points accepted by the judge were that global temperatures are rising and are likely to continue to rise, that climate change will cause serious damage if left unchecked, and that it is entirely possible for governments and individuals to reduce its impacts.


Of course it is "entirely possible" for all the kids to demand to walk to school, to refuse to ride in cars, to not get bathed, to demand the central heating turned off, to refuse all but organic food, to ridicule their parents weepings at the plunging stock markets and to insist on hair shirts.

Obviously.

Anyway- what does "reduce" mean.

The film shouldn't be shown in schools because expert persuaders with all the techniques money can buy are pitting themselves against the innocence and idealism of children who have little or no defence against such things. What on earth does Gore want to spoil their childhoods for?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 01:25 pm
Hb-

On re-reading your previous post I will admit to being a bit over the top with my comments. I don't think you deserved it. I apologise.

I'm inclined to think that there is no serious alternative to oil except a large scale nuclear programme accompanied by a revolution in transportation, security provision and manufacturing and that such things are unlikely to be guided by us A2Kers who have a distinct tendency to indulge the sweeping brushstroke which permits us to avoid the gory details wherein the Devil is known to lurk.

Assuming, of course, that population decline is not an option.

BTW- I have written sentences appreciably longer than that one on occasion with the specific intention of making them inscrutable to all but the most patient viewers.

I think there is a problem with some essential products of the refining process which are in the crude in small quantities and which have no other source in the volumes we require. I'm not sure about that but I had read somewhere, long ago, that gas is basically a by-product and that we are encouraged to use it to dispose of it more conveniently than would otherwise be the case.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 01:42 pm
spendius wrote:

The film shouldn't be shown in schools because expert persuaders with all the techniques money can buy are pitting themselves against the innocence and idealism of children who have little or no defence against such things. What on earth does Gore want to spoil their childhoods for?


I have noticed something lately, certain people of some political persuasions love to use innocent children to spread their propaganda, by making unwitting stooges out of them. The environmental movement loves to do this in the schools. If they can get the children, they've won half the battle at least.
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Halfback
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 01:59 pm
Spendius:

Thank you for apology... accepted with no reservation.

I have noted your posts before, and with the occasional disagreement (to which gentlemen are allowed by civil convention), I tend to go along with your ideas. Very Happy

Nuclear IS probably the best single technology we have available at the moment to begin to have an impact on Oil needs. The singular BIG question is whether or not the Greens, tree huggers and other of their ilk are willing to concede the point that we seem to need it.

Even if we allow new nuke plants to begin, unfrettered by frivilous law suits (...and that comment will earn me some flack, I'm sure.), right now, it will still be a couple of years before the first units can come on line.

Always the rock and the hard place! Sad

Halfback

P.S. Shocker of the week: Duke Energy accounced this week that they are reducing electricity rates for us poor, dumb consumers. Gotta be a record first!
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Halfback
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 02:02 pm
"...wherein the Devil is known to lurk." Cool NICE turn of phrase!

Halfback
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