I don't follow your point, Walter. My reference was to the current political impasse in Belgium and the fact that it has been without a government for about three months, mostly over unsettled disputes among the population, mostly along linguistic lines.
A true Green is an earthling. Any concern with nationality is actually anti-Green.
A map of the world coloured across the spectrum would show the US in the infra-red and the Sudanese water carrier in the wide blue yonder.
I daresay there are 300 million people in India alone whose collective carbon footprint is less than that of one lower-middle-class American.
spendius wrote:A true Green is an earthling. Any concern with nationality is actually anti-Green.
A bunch of one worlders, spendius, yes. Thats why the U.N. and other such organizations love the global warming agenda. The U.N. is not about peace or freedom, but about political power, and the green movement offers alot of opportunities in that regard.
Quote- I daresay there are 300 million people in India alone whose collective carbon footprint is less than that of one lower-middle-class American.- unquote
If you are talking personal footprint, yes.. but if you take the combined footprint of all the many millions in India's and the many many, other's with a lessor footprint position, yearly... there will be a time when their collective carbon footprint could well exceed the average westerners of today,especially as they seem to breed much faster than westerners
georgeob1 wrote:I don't follow your point, Walter. My reference was to the current political impasse in Belgium and the fact that it has been without a government for about three months, mostly over unsettled disputes among the population, mostly along linguistic lines.
Right, like so ften before.
But there's the German speaking part of Belgium as well ...
Walter Hinteler wrote:georgeob1 wrote:I don't follow your point, Walter. My reference was to the current political impasse in Belgium and the fact that it has been without a government for about three months, mostly over unsettled disputes among the population, mostly along linguistic lines.
Right, like so ften before.
But there's the German speaking part of Belgium as well ...
Then there is no hope for them. :wink:
anton wrote :
Quote:Quote- I daresay there are 300 million people in India alone whose collective carbon footprint is less than that of one lower-middle-class American.- unquote
If you are talking personal footprint, yes.. but if you take the combined footprint of all the many millions in India's and the many many, other's with a lessor footprint position, yearly... there will be a time when their collective carbon footprint could well exceed the average westerners of today,especially as they seem to breed much faster than westerners
imo citizens of other countries are entitled to live as well as citizens of western countries .
it is interesting to note that when china came out with a "one child policy" , many western countries decried that policy , calling it "cruel and unhumane" .
again , imo , they did the right thing for their country .
it has been shown that in most less and under-developed countries the birthrate declines - often steeply - as education improves .
it's really not that long ago - 100 years ? - that families in the western nations had 5 , 6 and more children - what a difference a hundred years makes !
if the less and under-developed countries are given help to develop their economies and further education , their birthrates will no doubt start to drop .
btw there is a rather strange and very strong movement in some western countries NOT to help the other countries in matters of birth-control - VERY STRANGE , IMO .
hbg
george wrote :
Quote:Then there is no hope for them.
it seems there is also little hope for SOME
to understand what's going on in other countries around the world :wink: .
perhaps that's just as well
.
hbg
As you noted, economic development is, by far, the most effective proven method of birth control. The best way to accomplish that is through education, technological stimulus and free trade.
Attempting to alter the social norms of another country or culture through direct action by foreign governments is both lfar less effective and contrary to the beliefs and interests of some people in the donor countries. I see nothing strange in that.
Far stranger in my view are the restrictions on the agricultural and other exports of developing countries that hold back their economic development.
hamburger wrote:george wrote :
Quote:Then there is no hope for them.
it seems there is also little hope for SOME
to understand what's going on in other countries around the world :wink: .
perhaps that's just as well
.
hbg
And what the hell do you mean by that?
I think he means George that you should carry on as usual and not bother your head about other things.
I may be wrong but that is how I would have taken it had it been addressed to me.
It's just filibustering Bernie.
Nah, spendi. It is simply that I don't share your contention that all the golden throughts are to be found behind one's own eyeballs.
I don't recall either contending such an idiotic idea or even having ever thought of it.
But I bow to the wisdom and experience of someone who must have engaged in either or both activities in order to be able to have become aware of the possibility.
It is quite common, trite even, for those who incubate and harbour such an unscientific notion to ascribe to others the same degree of implacable and unrelenting zeal for it which animates their own breasts. Projection is a word the psychologists use for this rather odd characteristic which is said to flatter the complacence of the prejudices of the throngs.
Auberon Waugh, of blessed memory, advised that when someone constantly protests their honesty and integrity it is as well to check that the silver spoons are still in the cupboard.
On reflection it seems to me that referring to a twice elected administration as "dipshits" is a classic example of the out of control mind having "golden thoughts".
And even more so when it is remembered that the policy had bi-partisan support in both our countries, a number of other countries behind it enough to risk their own people and a resolution of the UN providing for its implementation, if somewhat tardily, and has no credible opposition to it as both Mrs Clinton and Mr Cameron testify.
Quote:Projection is a word the psychologists use for this rather odd characteristic which is said to flatter the complacence of the prejudices of the throngs.
Auberon Waugh, of blessed memory, advised that when someone constantly protests their honesty and integrity it is as well to check that the silver spoons are still in the cupboard.
These 'truths' apply at home spendi, or just to others?
There exists in this forum, lots of viewpoints, lots of graphs, lots of study results, lots of good information, lots of food for thought, and the usual ten percent of hype. NOT that I have read it all..... this is one of the forums that expands faster than I could keep up, should I start at the beginning and go through to the end.
What I do perceive, however, is that there is no consensus on the matter. Nor is there likely to be under the present circumstances. Therefore, before we turn to economic measures to move one way or the other on the issue, I submit that it is best, right now, to allow the scientists to continue their efforts to "pin down" cause and event. (Which they will do anyway, without my urging. Because that is what they do!) Being a "Hot Button" topic, funding will be available for the continued effort.
I do suggest, however, since the reduction of dependence on foreign oil seems to be a "National Goal" of sorts. I suggest funding be made available to promote ideas, concepts and construction of alternate sources of power. Nuclear and Hydroelectric seem the best at the moment. Wind to a lesser extent. Solar cells, the same. Geothermal efforts have good potential. The are many potential threads to investigate.
Immediate efforts in this direction, will help accomplish the "reduction of foreign oil" goal, will help reduce contamination of the air as these alternatives come on line, put the US in a position of leading the way instead of being the Country the whole world points the finger at as the worst of the lot. Lastly, the US has the money to develop, research and test these alternate power sources, many countries do not. Once we do the R&D on these, passing on the technology to other countries becomes easy.
Come on, USA! Be a Mench, do the right thing.
Halfback
Excuse my cynicism Hb but that sounds like you have been under the sway for far too long of one of those prim New England lady teachers who thrum with enthusiasm at the prospect of inculcating in their young charges utopian ideas of sweeping grandeur culled from a quick read of an article in one of those glossy mags which specialise in flattering the self-important pomposity of their readers who are, by definition, of average intelligence and quite often a few points light of that modest capacity.
The trick is to posture as responsibly concerned with the smallest possible effort or discomfort and thus to find oneself popular with the average run of mankind who are incapable of thinking in any other way.
Bernie- I think you quoted the wrong lines from my previous post. They were merely a bit of fluffing to decorate-
Quote:I don't recall either contending such an idiotic idea or even having ever thought of it.
