Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

Is you is or is you ain't, spendi?

Is I or is I not what?

I did like Spendi's metaphor of Gibbon's description of early Christians with the Green political movement - both in its European and American variants. Regardless of one's estimate of the merits of either (Christians & environmentalists), the analogy is well put.

Might well be. And now, after 25 years in state and federal parliaments and governments, they'e reached their post-reformation period.

Walter, given the general failure of European nations to meet the Kyoto goals, which they so piously took on, I would guess that the political evolution of European Greens is more advanced than you indicate. They are decidedly post Enlightenment now.

Even the Swedes who so loudly swore off nuclear power just a few years ago are building new plants. Perhaps they are still the vanguard.

I've no information that the Green were in the Swedish government at all - and even in parliamnet they don't have a dominant role. (Sweden has a conservative government.)

Conservative in Sweden = left wing here.

Besides I was just indulging myself in some pleasing European-bashing on a saturday morning before I go to the gym. (helps me to wake up)

Well, they are really very right in European eyes ...

I noticed that you didn't fell very well ...

Perhaps so. However even in Spain the Right Wing is gaining Political power.

This shiift is an entirely natural reaction to the growing excesses of Social democrat policies that can no longer be sustained with contemporary demographic and economic conditions. Those policies worked wonderfully well in the years following the European post-war "economic miracle", however, the situation now is profoundly different. Germany is facing up to some of the changes required, and now France appears to have begun as well.

Ironically, the United States appears to be moving in the opposite direction.

When the day comes, as it will, when advertising is banned and growth targets are abandoned it might be possible to view the rhetoric of western government spokespersons on green issues without snickering.

The real green position arrives as an unlooked for and, indeed unconscious side-effect of a natural inclination, easily seen by any sub-Darwinian in domesticated animals, to take it easy when the necessary vegetal impulses have been satiated.

The dog is something of an exception to this as dogs are so stupid that they can be trained by their owner to execute the most ridiculous behaviours, such as looking up at them in veneration on a full stomach, and if that's not ridiculous it would be hard to think what might be.

Turn any Green into a lottery winner and watch the buggers go. All pretence of "saving the earth" ( which is pretty silly too) flies away as if a mist when a wind gets up.

The issue is mainly one relating to the talentless wishing to make larger waves in the world using sentimental platitudes and downright lies than the market system allows them to do.

The idea that Greens are morally superior persons is repugnant to all but the naive. It seems fairly obvious to me that the Greenpeace "Commandos" are in it for the shagging as it is well known that many young ladies are somewhat naive and bored and easily attracted to planet saving notions as such notions are, to all intents and purposes, other-wordly, they can thus be safely embraced without fear of any sacrifices having to be made in the proximate vicinity of their person.

The spendius methods of being green with integrity-

1- Shoot yourself.

2- Go live in a cave eating seaweed and snails.

3- Avoid filling in questionaires.

Perhaps you try to get some infos re European parties and politics beyond the ¾ page in American papers ... :wink:

george mused

Well, just maybe that's because the US has found itself swaggering about like Mussolini on a drunk.

Take George as an example.

He could easily wake himself up with a 15 minute routine by the side of his bed followed by a cold shower and a brisk rub down by a maid with a rough towel.

Instead he goes (probably drives) to a gym which is a sort of sacred temple of consumerism, (eat it up and take it off), wherein he is likely to encounter grunting priestesses in leotards to whom he can show off his bronzed musclature amid an array of shiny metal equipment and leather upholstery not all that unlike the bridge on a large boat and very much like the props they sometimes use in certain types of movie for which California is justifiably famous.

But at least he isn't wittering about saving the bloody earth.

Well, the awful truth is I don't read any American newspapers. Most are either utterly superficial and unreliable and/or profoundly biased.

Do you really believe that most Europeans know more about America than Americans about Europe? It is an interesting question.

All nations, particularly democracies, tend to see thamselves as the center of action and attention in their respective universes. For Europeans, the process of forming and later expanding the EU has naturally altered this phenomenon to the extent that there are (in some sense) two homelands, the nation and the European Community. Americans are reputed to be a bit more inclined to this kind of self-preoccupation than others, however I do believe this is often much exaggerated by others. The attention Europeans give to their own countries plus that to their European community is about the same as what we give to ourselves.

The cultural and economic variability among all but the most recent members of the EU are of about the same magnitude as the variability among States in this country (excepting, of course, language).

The world is much bigger than either the EU or the United States.

Well, certainly the world is bigger than the EU or the USA.
You can see that when you look at the "International" sites in the European press - which doesn't only focus on the EU, or Europe, or USA ...

I'm not sure if the average European knows more about America than someone from there.
What I do know is that many EU-citizens know more about the USA than vice versa (e.g not many here mix the USA with 'America' like a lot of US-citizens just minimise Europe to the EU).

Same here.


I have met many Europeans who quickly profess that they have an understanding of this country that subsequent discussions reveal they do not. I think that accounts for most of the differences you cite. Americans may be merely more frank about their ignorance.

The people of Mexico call themselves "Mexicans", just as those of Canada call themselves "Canadians". What rule should apply to The United States of America ? Should we call ourselves "United Statesians"? The fact is we call ourselves "Americans". The appellation is accurate and nothing in it implies that Mexicans and Canadians are not Americans as well. This is merely a phoney semantical issue.

Well, the Belgians call themselves Belgians, the Germans Germans, the Danish Danish ... .... add some 45 more nationalities .... and all live in Europe.

And though the citizens of the 27 EU-stated got an European passport, they are nationals of their homecountry (and of course Europeans, because the EU only got European countries, until now).

My impression is that - at least recently - Belgians call themselves either Flemings or Walloons.

What did I say about the knowledge of US-ciotizens re Europe ....


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